CrazyRabbit
Active Member
You can use propane heaters indoors, I have two Mr heaters…. I only get 8-12 kWh on the worst days, but I get +100kwh with a sunny day in winter.
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Do you have enough solar to go off grid in winter?
- Thread starter getakey
- Start date
You can use some propane heaters indoors, at least until the oxygen level drops. Even the Mr. heaters come in several versions, not all of which are safe for indoor use.
validhouse.com
All the best,
BG
Is Mr Heater Safe Indoors? (Yes or No) | ValidHouse
Is Mr Heater Safe Indoors? Not all Mr Heater products are safe for indoor use. Outdoor Mr. Heater products are not safe indoors to avoid
validhouse.com
All the best,
BG
RKCRLR
Active Member
Additionally, ventless propane heaters put a lot of moisture in the air. I've had water puddling in my window tracks from the condensation in my camper.You can use some propane heaters indoors, at least until the oxygen level drops. Even the Mr. heaters come in several versions, not all of which are safe for indoor use.
Is Mr Heater Safe Indoors? (Yes or No) | ValidHouse
Is Mr Heater Safe Indoors? Not all Mr Heater products are safe for indoor use. Outdoor Mr. Heater products are not safe indoors to avoid
All the best,
BG
GregBallantyne
Member
I understand the moisture issue becomes larger in a smaller space. I'm not anticipating that with 2400 ft2 space.... but may also add a vented stove depending on how well things are working after a season's experience.
CrazyRabbit
Active Member
I welcome the added moisture, my house gets way too dry inside in the winter. So that is a benefit and I already new it.
CrazyRabbit
Active Member
GregBallantyne
Member
I deleted two chimneys during my Solar Roof install - they were metal chimneys, on a couple of manufactured wood burning fireplaces. I guess I've been done with cutting and handling firewood these days, and the location of the chimneys was such that I was able to get additional 5-6 kw of rated capacity out of my design along with eliminating some shading without them. Of course those chimneys wouldn't have been code or insurance requirement compliant with wood stoves, with or without catalytic.... It wasn't an easy decision to turn toward propane, but reality and feasibility conspired to make that a possible way to reach a fairly significant goal. And additional moisture that time of year is welcomed, I run a humidifier on my heat pump that almost gets me where I want to be with moisture in the winter. My possible vented stove option will depend on how much value I can see in making up for annual kwh gap worth of BTU, perhaps resulting in the ability to find a credible off- grid indefinite operating path. I am envious of your 8 Powerwalls..... I've got 3, and may opt for another one ot two myself instead of going for an additional propane burner. Gotta see a full year or better of operation first.
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Today was heat pump day (5.5 tons of 'um). Gone will be the 1500W steam unit, run ~3hr/day just to get to ~35-40%RH. Those losses came with the home's 154k btu oil unit. Cruising TMC tonight 'cause I need Winter power! Off Grid? Pffft.I welcome the added moisture, my house gets way too dry inside in the winter. So that is a benefit and I already new it.
After 2yrs PV:
24KW, east/west faces, with southern obstruction
Max summer month 3,200KWh
Min winter month: 276KWh
March can get me net-exporting (pre heat pump), but Dec-Feb are disaster. A rack mount is where I think I'm headed, but finding it hard to navigate my interconnection agreement. My summer "exports" are comp'd @60%, so covering 7-8,000 added winter heat pump KWh (est.) won't happen.
Think I'd need wood stove, new construction, plus roof and rack mounted PV, to go off-grid. The "insulate the old house" programs don't seem close. (w/o heat pump) Just the blower for the oil furnace is >1KW. My typical R19 walls don't hold heat, and if you have them, chances are your 2X4 house hasn't got inches of foam core on its exterior, either. Off-grid is a real tough bogie for dark, freezing weather.
I'm in Hawaii so heating isn't exactly a consideration; I use on average 30kWh/day for the house and 35kWh/week for EV charging year round. Our range is the only propane load in the house (and we could get by on 4 20# bottles per year there). My current PV is 8kW and nets out around zero for the year. To go off-grid completely I would need 20kW of PV and about 80kWh of battery, although 24kW of PV would be more reliable and you could never have enough battery. In the summer I could host one hell of a crypto-mining farm.
For those considering wood stoves you need to factor in the amount of work involved. I use a soapstone catalytic wood stove to supplement my natural gas furnaces. It's beautiful and wonderful to sit next to BUT I'm chopping and storing wood a lot, the stove and surrounding area needs to be cleaned frequently (including the chimney), and the stove needs to be tended to hourly to keep producing heat. It's way more convenient to have a thermostat. They do make pellet stoves that are more user friendly, it's not as pretty but probably easier to live with (although it does need some electricity to work). Nothing is perfect.
RKCRLR
Active Member
I have a high efficiency built-in wood stove (air injection - not catalytic) and use it daily in the winter. I have a lot of trees and if I wasn't burning wood in the stove I'd be burning it in a pile. But I don't try to keep it going all night. I use my heat pump to take the chill out off in the morning before I get up and then start a fire in the stove to maintain temperature during the day. But it is messy and requires maintenance. If I didn't have to get rid of wood one way or another I'd have a propane stove with a thermostat.
There is something about a fire with radiant heat that just feels good.
There is something about a fire with radiant heat that just feels good.
I have a catalytic stove too for the lowest portion of my house. I'm putting in a mini-split though because the price of wood has more than doubled. I paid $400 for half a cord
GregBallantyne
Member
Yes.... I stopped burning wood some years ago, for some of those reasons. Pellets don't get rid of all of it, still gotta move the wood. Much like corn. I was a corn man for a while as well.....carried a lot of corn.
Wood warms you 7 times.
When you cut it.
When you move it the first time.
When you chop it.
When you stack it.
When you move it again to the stove.
When you burn it.
When you clean up the ash and bark chips and dust the house.
What could be better?
GregBallantyne
Member
I used to like that part of it..... wood has warmed me many times, as has corn, but not nearly as much. But I ended up moving on I guess. These days wood still warms me, but not in the same way - I put strings on it, and warm myself with them. Hopefully I warm a few others as well!Wood warms you 7 times.
When you cut it.
When you move it the first time.
When you chop it.
When you stack it.
When you move it again to the stove.
When you burn it.
When you clean up the ash and bark chips and dust the house.
What could be better?
CrazyRabbit
Active Member
I couldn’t survive off grid without supplementing my heat with propane/wood. If it is zero degrees out I use 200 kWh per day with supplementing with fire place, and on a good solar day I can generate 80 kWh in winter, summer 130 kwh; but I can’t count on solar in winter. If I shutoff the electric resistant heat I probably could.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
fireplace or stove? If it's an open hole in the wall with a chimney you're likely removing more heat from your house from convection than you're adding with radiation.
'Resistance'? Why no heat pump?
You can get panels regularly now for ~$0.30/w. I've started mounting them vertically. They don't take up ~any additional space but really kick butt in the winter. Any E-W fence covered in south facing panels with good exposure would easily cover winter use.
CrazyRabbit
Active Member
I would like to toss out my existing hvac, but for a few week out of the year it does what it needs to within my energy budget (solar production). To replace three systems would be expensive, $30K plus. I will keep fixing what I have, I do my own work.
I have regular fireplace insert with glass doors, I was able to get the living room up to 70F during URI, so it dose work. I fully understand your point. But now I got Mr. Heater’s, propane.
Vertical panels make sence with large snow fall, especially if up north.
Still have a few more days left in November…. Solar for the year.
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nwdiver
Well-Known Member
A fireplace will usually warm the room it's in but will cool the house overall since it's sucking in air from exterior rooms which is obviously replace with cold outside air. That's why wood stoves are so critical, they control the airflow.
The premise of the vertical panels is more to just take advantage of unused vertical surface area, especially when you just need more production in the winter.
Why not add a few heat pump mini splits. They would probably pay for themselves in ~2 years if you DIY. You can usually find 2 ton units for ~$2k. That would save a couple gallons of propane per day.
CrazyRabbit
Active Member
My insert has fresh air inlet on the sides, Glass helps slow the flow up the chimney.
Vertical has the benefit of self clearing snow. Tilt of earth is 23.6 degrees, so that is 47.2 summer to winter. Vertical is the equivalent of north facing panels in summer as vertical to winter.
I’m not worried about 5 gallons of propane, remember I’m in Texas, just a few cold days. I try to moderate electric to only consume what I produce during a billing period.
