I'm not sure how much of this is a design error. Is it technically possible to disconnect the cells completely while still maintaing a tight temperature control? Would Tesla be responsible for the battery pack if you left the car at a 10% SOC and left for a month? The battery pack would disconnect then bake in the sun for 2 weeks. Tesla might still be able to revive the battery pack but the potential thermal damage could severely harm the pack's use and the owner could then again blame Telsa. They seem to be in a no win situation if the owner goes against every warning and again common sense in terms of plugging the car in. I don't think there is a need for a recall on the Roadster. Tesla should maybe contact every Roadster owner over the phone and stress the importance of plugging the car in.
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Do you know that you must keep your battery charged?
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Recalls happen because of an unknown problem showing up after delivery. This was a known behavior of the vehicle, clearly stated.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Recalls are only issued for safety issues. There really isn't one in this case.
I'm not sure you can even claim there is a manufacturing defect, because the discharge rate and time from 0% to over-discharge was well documented and the car actually performed better than specified (3.5%/week vs 5%/week, at least 14 days vs immediately in the manual and the disclosure statement).
As long as you are informed about the discharge rate and the need to keep it away from 0% for too long, I don't think it's that hard to avoid.
Norbert
TSLA will win
No, it is a property of current battery technology. BTW, even ICE's can damage from the gasoline degenerating chemically.
Maybe they really can't, or Tesla doesn't consider that the best solution for some reason. That's not the kind of thing a manufacturer has to explain to us in all detail.
It was more than misleading. TopGear has crossed many lines, in many episodes not just regarding Tesla. (And Tesla did a lot of Roadster events.)
It seems pure speculation that Tesla could do something in a recall. The problem is not new to them, and without discussing things with their experts, we have to assume that they chose the best solution for a range of possible situations.
How many millions of dollars would it take to recall every Tesla and retrofit each car with possible a new PEM and maybe battery along with other necessary changes for this 'design flaw'? While the design of the car may not be ideal, it did function exactly how Telsa said it would. They seemed to have found a way to make this even less of a problem with the Model S. I'd rather have Tesla take the millions of dollars they would need for a recall and spend it towards engineers, advertising, factory workers..etc
NigelM
Recovering Member
Agree with Norbert's comments. Additionally:
Which cars? One is known, the others all seem to have been speculation/rumor.
"Prevent" is asking for an absolute that can never be fulfilled. So it might take 12 months standing unplugged for a Model S to "brick", how can that be prevented? You can't protect everyone from their own stupidity.....
The following pic shows a major fire risk for all ICE's...should the manufacturers issue a recall notice to prevent it ever happening again?:
Yup, it's a design problem. The car designer put the filler pipe in the wrong place, if it was at the rear of the car you could drive away and the nozzle would fall out. Or there could be a sensor on the fuel filler door that prevents the car from starting when it's open. Someone should be blogging about this!!
Which cars? One is known, the others all seem to have been speculation/rumor.
"Prevent" is asking for an absolute that can never be fulfilled. So it might take 12 months standing unplugged for a Model S to "brick", how can that be prevented? You can't protect everyone from their own stupidity.....
The following pic shows a major fire risk for all ICE's...should the manufacturers issue a recall notice to prevent it ever happening again?:
Yup, it's a design problem. The car designer put the filler pipe in the wrong place, if it was at the rear of the car you could drive away and the nozzle would fall out. Or there could be a sensor on the fuel filler door that prevents the car from starting when it's open. Someone should be blogging about this!!
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I think if money is spent on this issue, the best place to spend it is perhaps to call up owners and inform them about it (and also on informing future Tesla owners about it when they buy a car). Even a recall will not eliminate the danger of over-discharge, it only extends the time it takes for it to happen. So someone ignorant about it can still have it happen to them.
Scotts log parser shows in the sleep records a current of -0,1A from the ESS. That's when it's idle. (@ 21[SUP]o[/SUP]C)
That's about 37W. About 3 months to drain a 53 kWh battery.
Not sure if the resolution is good enough though, maybe it's actually -0,05A, but the VMS rounds it to -0,1A
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
I'm sorry, this guy is an idiot. Seriously RTFM! He says it wasn't spelled out clearly enough, like people who spill hot coffee on themselves and sue the sellers of the coffee. Let's see, it was written all over in the manual, he signed a document clearly spelling out his pack would be permanently damaged if he did this. What more does he want, what does he think permanent damage means? Everyone knew the cost of a Roadster battery pack is around 30k, that's been public for years. He even stored it at 21% SOC. I mean, he drives it to almost empty and then lets it sit for 2 months, doesn't ever check on it, and somehow Tesla is at fault? This guy really needs to be slapped upside the head for having way more dollars than sense.
smorgasbord
Active Member
As has been pointed out in the blogosphere, gas going stale in a car isn't going to cost $40K to repair. And, that takes a lot longer than a few months.
A court of law said the Top Gear episode was not misleading. And that wouldn't have happened has Tesla not sued. All Tesla did was legitimize Top Gear. Again, this was a bad approach to the problem. You and I know the truth, but steadfastly sticking to it is almost never the right PR move.
Clearly not the best solution, as they improved the design in later versions, as well as in later cars.
OK, so I should have said "help prevent."
Well, first of all, I note that the hose had a breakaway connector. These were retrofitted onto all gas pumps (at least in CA) at some point. So, that's the equivalent of a recall.
But, note there's a big difference between stupidity and ignorance. Putting the hose in your car and driving off without remembering to remove it is stupid (or at least forgetful). Not knowing that your car can't sit for 2 months without being plugged in is ignorance.
What's ironic here is that the Roadster tells you if you attempt to drive the car with the charge port door open. Imagine driving off with the connector still attached and live wires breaking off!
Norbert
TSLA will win
A critical part of the change in the Model S is that battery cells are improved and targeted for automotive use. I'm not sure what has changed in Roadsters (except GSM notifications to Tesla), but while I haven't read every sentence in every message in the thread, any improvements in Roadsters might have been hardware improvements (for example less energy consuming battery management). Any firmware change might have to balance improvements in one direction with disadvantages in another direction (less optimal temperature), and you often can't just remove features even if you add others. I doubt there is a simple thing Tesla could have done but hasn't already. So unless you really know something, please don't start a new rumor in that direction by stating a hope for a possibility as if it were a fact.
Norbert
TSLA will win
So we agree about the "truth". That was my point. I'm not a PR expert, and I haven't read the court's decision in detail, but I supported and still support Tesla's case.
Didn't the court actually say something more like: "Top Gear are total buffoons and people don't really think they are journalists. You can't sue them for libel even though they totally lied."
OK I may have put a little bit of my own spin on that.
You can't stop stupid.
Exclusive: Lamborghini Gallardo Catches Fire At Portland Auto Show
Should this be covered under warranty? They could install software to prevent this. Recall?
Exclusive: Lamborghini Gallardo Catches Fire At Portland Auto Show
Should this be covered under warranty? They could install software to prevent this. Recall?
NigelM
Recovering Member
As my Latin teacher always used to say in a case like this "Ignorantia non excusat"
dmckinstry
Model X 2019
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