Do you know that you must keep your battery charged?

[dsm363]

The story may have taken an interesting turn - is this a stunt? Is Tesla 'Bricking' Story Just An Angry Owner's Warranty Claim?

A warranty claim?

He may have just confirmed that it's him (or he's just talking about this other owner):

Twitter
Michael DeGusta @degusta
So Tesla: first GPS tracking & now possibly leaking emails & customer info (to totally-in-the-tank-for-Tesla @GreenCarReports). Stay classy

If it's him, you'd think a CEO of a tech company would know better.

 

[qwk]

Tesla really pissed me off with this 'brick' thing. Such an important issue i have to learn from some 'blogger'. One thing is to know that you must keep your battery charged and completely other thing is to know that you can brick the car. If this issue is not handled properly by Tesla I plan to cancel my order. Lousy statement like on AutoblogGreen doesn't cut it for me.

You have been here since at least 2009 and still didn't know any of this? Talk about not paying any attention to the obvious.

 

[dpeilow]

We've known about storage mode since as long as I've been a member here. It's been discussed many times.

Maybe WarpedOne could add it to the faq?


But that doesn't excuse this. The first thing I did before going on a solo trip in the Roadster was RTFM.

 

[stopcrazypp]

There are gas stations everywhere and people still run out of gas. Someone here did a Life with Tesla or some such and mentioned running out of charge once in his Roadster. This stuff happens sometimes in the real world.

You are mixing up two issues (which most people also mixed up in most of the articles). The issue is not running out of charge. The issue is running out of charge AND leaving it parked for weeks unplugged. The battery doesn't immediately brick when it reaches an indicated "zero".

 

[VolkerP]

Posts in this thread appear to mention two kind of people
(1) In order not to turn my car into a brick, someone else must do something (teach me, call me, show me DVD, reengineer BMS, invent non-self-discharging battery...)
(2) In order not to turn my car into a brick, I must do something...

IMO there is no way to bridge the gap between these two.

One more thing: Cars are developed by engineers. Engineers have a common underestimate of real-world people's behavior. Adding lawyers to the problem didn't help so far...

 

[qwk]

Posts in this thread appear to mention two kind of people
(1) In order not to turn my car into a brick, someone else must do something (teach me, call me, show me DVD, reengineer BMS, invent non-self-discharging battery...)
(2) In order not to turn my car into a brick, I must do

That's because some people take responsibility for their actions, some don't and try to blame others...

 

[Fr23shjive]

I sympathize with Mr. Drucker. Of course if you're spending $100k + on an EV you should know the required maintenance. I don't think that his battery should be replaced free of chare BUT I do think this is something that Tesla should address. I don't know how difficult it would be to create software or some sort of mechanism that would prevent Tesla batteries from completely draining and subsequently becoming "bricks" but it's something that should be looked into. From what I've read the Nissan Leaf has software that prevents the battery from completely draining. If they can do it then Tesla should be able to do it.

What happens if a soldier gets deployed overseas and isn't able to recharge his vehicle for months, or like Mr. Drucker, leave your car in storage while renovations are being made to your home, or any other scenario that would prevent an owner from being able to maintain their vehicle for a long period of time? Is the owner ultimately responsible? Yes, but it doesn't mean that Tesla shouldn't take the initiative to prevent things like this from happening.

 

[ElSupreme]

I sympathize with Mr. Drucker. Of course if you're spending $100k + on an EV you should know the required maintenance. I don't think that his battery should be replaced free of chare BUT I do think this is something that Tesla should address. I don't know how difficult it would be to create software or some sort of mechanism that would prevent Tesla batteries from completely draining and subsequently becoming "bricks" but it's something that should be looked into. From what I've read the Nissan Leaf has software that prevents the battery from completely draining. If they can do it then Tesla should be able to do it.

What happens if a soldier gets deployed overseas and isn't able to recharge his vehicle for months, or like Mr. Drucker, leave your car in storage while renovations are being made to your home, or any other scenario that would prevent an owner from being able to maintain their vehicle for a long period of time? Is the owner ultimately responsible? Yes, but it doesn't mean that Tesla shouldn't take the initiative to prevent things like this from happening.

It isn't hard to find a 120V 15A outlet in these cases! If you have to disconnect the light in a storage unit and pull power from it.

IANAL but I am pretty sure some of my advise is not quite legal. I guess it depends on how thorough your rental contract is, and how tough the electric codes are.

 

[JRod0802]

Posts in this thread appear to mention two kind of people
(1) In order not to turn my car into a brick, someone else must do something (teach me, call me, show me DVD, reengineer BMS, invent non-self-discharging battery...)
(2) In order not to turn my car into a brick, I must do something...

That's because some people take responsibility for their actions, some don't and try to blame others...

Well that's a huge oversimplification. Do you think no one should ever help me with anything, and I should always learn everything myself? 'Cause that's what it sounds like you're saying.

 

[qwk]

Well that's a huge oversimplification. Do you think no one should ever help me with anything, and I should always learn everything myself? 'Cause that's what it sounds like you're saying.

No, but when you buy something unfamiliar(especially something that costs $110+k) and it comes with an operating manual, why wouldn't you read it? Not reading the manual or calling Tesla to ask questions is Stupid. It's something even a child could do.

 

[dsm363]

Posts in this thread appear to mention two kind of people
(1) In order not to turn my car into a brick, someone else must do something (teach me, call me, show me DVD, reengineer BMS, invent non-self-discharging battery...)
(2) In order not to turn my car into a brick, I must do something...

I think both are kind of valid. People should take responsibly for themselves and their car (read the manual, learn about how EVs are different and what it takes to maintain their car) but if there are technological solutions that Tesla can implement to make this problem almost non-existent (I don't think it's really a problem to begin with), then why not? I would think the car sending a text message, e-mail and opting in to have Tesla call you as a last resort would take care of all of the reasonable people. The other people who turned all those safety features off or ignore them well that's their problem. If there is a way for Tesla to separate the drain on the pack and disable the car as a last resort to protect the battery pack then they should do it. You've seen the PR headache and potential damage one inattentive owner caused because he didn't bother to read the manual or learn anything about his car caused. Why give these kinds of bloggers and certain 'news' organizations any more ammo than the stuff their already make up?

No, but when you buy something unfamiliar(especially something that costs $110+k) and it comes with an operating manual, why wouldn't you read it? Not reading the manual or calling Tesla to ask questions is Stupid. It's something even a child could do.

I agree. He really is to blame and to blog under a different name (if it's really him) in order to try and damage the company as revenge is just cheap.

 

[NigelM]

The issue here isn't the batteries drying up on their own, but Tesla's systems staying active and draining a battery even after it hits a very low SoC.

What do you think is drawing power? Think about for a moment. It's not the stereo...

 

[dpeilow]

From the letter published in Green Car Reports

This will could become a PR disaster for Tesla that could impact demand for electric cars for years to come. The market for electric car buyers becomes a lot smaller when people are afraid their battery might die and their car will become virtually worthless.

He didn't get sympathy because (unfortunately) he missed all the warnings about leaving the car plugged in, so he chose to use the nuclear option and try to trash the EV market?

What an a$$hole.

 

[Fr23shjive]

I think both are kind of valid. People should take responsibly for themselves and their car (read the manual, learn about how EVs are different and what it takes to maintain their car) but if there are technological solutions that Tesla can implement to make this problem almost non-existent (I don't think it's really a problem to begin with), then why not? I would think the car sending a text message, e-mail and opting in to have Tesla call you as a last resort would take care of all of the reasonable people. The other people who turned all those safety features off or ignore them well that's their problem. If there is a way for Tesla to separate the drain on the pack and disable the car as a last resort to protect the battery pack then they should do it. You've seen the PR headache and potential damage one inattentive owner caused because he didn't bother to read the manual or learn anything about his car caused. Why give these kinds of bloggers and certain 'news' organizations any more ammo than the stuff their already make up?

+1. I agree with everything in that post.

Regardless of who is at fault the PR problem this is going to cause Tesla in the future just isn't worth it. They need to take some steps to address this issue.

 

[NigelM]

Tesla really pissed me off with this 'brick' thing. Such an important issue i have to learn from some 'blogger'. One thing is to know that you must keep your battery charged and completely other thing is to know that you can brick the car. If this issue is not handled properly by Tesla I plan to cancel my order. Lousy statement like on AutoblogGreen doesn't cut it for me.

You should cancel you order. If you 're not prepared to live with an EV, don't buy one.

 

[qwk]

From the letter published in Green Car Reports



He didn't get sympathy because (unfortunately) he missed all the warnings about leaving the car plugged in, so he chose to use the nuclear option and try to trash the EV market?

What an a$$hole.

Agreed. I hope Tesla sticks with their decision on this one. This guy went pretty low blaming Tesla for a faulty design because he is too ignorant to follow instructions.

 

[stopcrazypp]

From what I've read the Nissan Leaf has software that prevents the battery from completely draining. If they can do it then Tesla should be able to do it.

That's just PR talking. And they are likely talking about something different (that when the Leaf says the battery is zero, it's not actually zero; but AFAIK, it's the same deal with the Tesla Roadster, there's actually a couple percent left to go). If you leave any battery uncharged for long periods of time, it's just a matter of time before it bricks from self discharge, no matter what "software" or circuit you have.

What happens if a soldier gets deployed overseas and isn't able to recharge his vehicle for months, or like Mr. Drucker, leave your car in storage while renovations are being made to your home, or any other scenario that would prevent an owner from being able to maintain their vehicle for a long period of time? Is the owner ultimately responsible? Yes, but it doesn't mean that Tesla shouldn't take the initiative to prevent things like this from happening.

Fully recharge it until you leave if it's not possible to plug it in. The Roadster manual says worse case, it'll last about 11 weeks (almost 3 months) if it is fully charged. Legally the owner is responsible because the manual and warranty clearly says not to leave the car unplugged for long periods of time.

I think what will ultimately happen is a warning sticker of some sort to warn people who don't read the manual.

 

[medved]

No, but when you buy something unfamiliar(especially something that costs $110+k) and it comes with an operating manual, why wouldn't you read it? Not reading the manual or calling Tesla to ask questions is Stupid. It's something even a child could do.

The fact that the car can become a 'brick" you NEED to know BEFORE you buy the car. NOT after. It is not a toothbrush you are buying here.

 

[AnOutsider]

You have been here since at least 2009 and still didn't know any of this? Talk about not paying any attention to the obvious.

Well, I've been here since 2009, and as mentioned, until this story, I did NOT know that the pack could be essentially killed. I knew keeping a high charge or a really low charge could reduce battery life, but did not know staying at 0 killed the battery. I'm not a Roadster owner though, so if they were told at purchase, then great. It's apparently NOT obvious though (unless you understand how lithium ion batteries work -- does the general public?)

What do you think is drawing power? Think about for a moment. It's not the stereo...

Not owning one, I'm not sure (hence my asking of questions). So far though, it would seem it's the battery management systems and perhaps connectivity? So, again, if those systems can be shut down at a critical point as to not fully deplete the battery, then why not? Stopping the systems keeping a battery at a certain temp has to be a better option than draining the pack completely? Especially if it means the pack lasts longer.

It's like your heart rate slowing when you get cold or are under water to preserve your life longer. Sure you're barely conscious at that point, but the end result is that you're ALIVE longer, which increases your chance of being found with a pulse.

The fact that the car can become a 'brick" you NEED to know BEFORE you buy the car. NOT after. It is not a toothbrush you are buying here.

Technically, the PACK becomes the (virtual) brick. The car can still get another pack -- and it's sounding like Roadster owners were at least told this. I still feel it should be prevented though.

 

[dsm363]

From the letter published in Green Car Reports



He didn't get sympathy because (unfortunately) he missed all the warnings about leaving the car plugged in, so he chose to use the nuclear option and try to trash the EV market?

What an a$$hole.

I actually read the section of the manual closely this time. I skimmed it when I got the car since I already knew 'never, ever let the SOC go close to 0%'. It is very clear on this and that doing so will not be covered by warranty and can permanently damage the battery. He even linked the PDF of the manual in his article. He doesn't have much of an argument other than 'yes, you can damage something if you try really hard and don't read anything about the product'.