Now that the $35K standard model 3 has been introduced and is selling to the non fanboy general public will Tesla soon be facing lawsuits regarding the so called autopilot? I think it could happen.
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Does auotpilot present a looming apocalypse for Tesla?
- Thread starter Austindude
- Start date
I don't think that's likely based on the legal language in the EULA. By purchasing and operating the vehicle you are stating that you understand and agree to the risks associated with autopilot, that it is still a Beta system, and that you must remain fully aware and in control of the vehicle at all times. Failure to do so is not the responsibility of Tesla or the autopilot system. It's true that anybody can sue anyone for anything at any time in the US, but that doesn't mean they'll actually win anything. Most likely any cases against autopilot are tossed out of court repeatedly because of the legal language in the EULA. As an investor, I think there are a lot bigger risks to Tesla than autopilot lawsuits.
Unfortunately I don't think the lawyers will be stopped by that language. Automobile companies are sued all the time by unscrupulous people who and have no business going to court in the first place. They hope for some sort of settlement so they will go away. Even if these autopilot cases are thrown out there will be lots of bad press for Tesla along the way. We've already seen this. No matter what, Tesla will have to spend time and money defending itself against what we all know will be frivolous lawsuits.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
There will definitely be more AP accidents the more AP equipped vehicles there are on the road. I'm not sure if the new group of owners will be any worse at using it than the older group. It seems to me that the fanboys are often the ones that get themselves in the most trouble because they trust the system too much.
What will be interesting is if anyone ever does a rigorous statistical analysis to see if AP actually reduces accidents. If it were found not to then Tesla could be in a tough spot and the NHTSA could require more restrictions on the system or ban it entirely.
In terms of lawsuits I bet the first successful AP lawsuit, if there is one, will be one filed by a third party injured by a person using AP.
What will be interesting is if anyone ever does a rigorous statistical analysis to see if AP actually reduces accidents. If it were found not to then Tesla could be in a tough spot and the NHTSA could require more restrictions on the system or ban it entirely.
In terms of lawsuits I bet the first successful AP lawsuit, if there is one, will be one filed by a third party injured by a person using AP.
UngaBunga1989
Member
Barklikeadog
Active Member
people will sue because of things like this:
“My guess as to when we would think it is safe for somebody to essentially fall asleep and wake up at their destination? Probably towards the end of next year,” he said.
“I think we will be feature complete, full self-driving, this year — meaning the car will be able to find you in a parking lot, pick you up, and take you all the way to your destination without an intervention — this year.
“I would say I am of certain of that. That is not a question mark.”
hallucinate
Member
People were elected president and seem to maintain said presidency with a long career of saying "worse", factually speaking.
In other words, not worried.
In other words, not worried.
Despite AP getting a lot of press, multiple other companies have similar systems including Nissan with Propilot and Cadillac with Supercruise. More and more manufacturers will be rolling these systems out over time. I see no reason why any company would be incurring massive amounts of liability if the system is used improperly - you wouldn’t see companies charging into the market if that were the case. Ultimately, these system collect and retain a tremendous amount of data in the event of an accident, giving the manufacturers a significant tool for defense in the event of lawsuits.
While I do agree many companies are rolling out "lane assist" types of autopilot they don't call them autopilot and they have been careful in what they have advertised about these systems. I think Tesla may be a little more vulnerable in his regard, but hey I hope I'm wrong.
You have to distinguish between "will they be sued" and "will a lawsuit proceed" and "can a plaintiff win". Those have very different answers. The first category is something no one can prevent, so the answer is that Tesla will be sued. The second and third categories are much harder to answer because those are based on actual evidence. None of us are knowledgeable about Tesla's development and deployment practices. If evidence is discovered that Tesla had some internal discussion that suggested there was something added or released that was knowingly risky, then I'm not sure Tesla will be able to rely on the "driver must stay attentive at all times" as a defense.
Overall, it's a very complicated question to answer. It appears that Tesla is less risk averse than a traditional manufacturer or other autonomous driving solutions. That puts them at more risk for being held liable, no matter what any of us individually might conclude is appropriate.
Overall, it's a very complicated question to answer. It appears that Tesla is less risk averse than a traditional manufacturer or other autonomous driving solutions. That puts them at more risk for being held liable, no matter what any of us individually might conclude is appropriate.
fajitamondays
Member
Well, things like this are happening too:
, so there will always be a reason to facepalm. Disclaimer - I don't know the authenticity of the clip, but I remember it being viral not long ago.
Mid-range was what, $40k-ish to start? If the masses/non-fanboy general public waited three years to be able to afford the $35k version, it will be interesting to find out what the uptake rate is on the AP/FSD options, which are currently $3k and $5k addons.
Mid-range was what, $40k-ish to start? If the masses/non-fanboy general public waited three years to be able to afford the $35k version, it will be interesting to find out what the uptake rate is on the AP/FSD options, which are currently $3k and $5k addons.
Most of the AP accidents to date have happened because the SW along with the AP computer weren't good enough stop the vehicle before crashing into something.
That's going to change over the next 6-12 months as SW is released that specifically takes advantage of HW3. The HW3 computer is on the $35K Model 3 (or at least we think it will be). The AP package sold for $3K doesn't do a whole lot. So I think it's mostly going to smooth sailing after a bumpy starts (it is Tesla after all).
The other thing most people don't seem to realize is the interior facing camera is part of the crash dump when an accident happens. So it's going to be a little hard to blame Tesla for an accident if the driver is drunk, sleeping, texting, etc. The source for this is verygreeen, but I've never actually seen a picture from the interior facing camera.
Now that isn't to say Tesla doesn't have a looming autopilot problem.
The problem that they're going to have is people will start to steer clear of Tesla's on the road because of unpredictable behavior.
False braking
Failed automatic lane changes
Odd behavior in the right lane where the car goes to the right anytime on onramp merges in (AP still does the hunt for the center thing).
I love my Model 3, but I have to admit I'm often baffled by things I witness other Model 3's doing.
We're going to be thought of as worse than Prius drivers.
That's going to change over the next 6-12 months as SW is released that specifically takes advantage of HW3. The HW3 computer is on the $35K Model 3 (or at least we think it will be). The AP package sold for $3K doesn't do a whole lot. So I think it's mostly going to smooth sailing after a bumpy starts (it is Tesla after all).
The other thing most people don't seem to realize is the interior facing camera is part of the crash dump when an accident happens. So it's going to be a little hard to blame Tesla for an accident if the driver is drunk, sleeping, texting, etc. The source for this is verygreeen, but I've never actually seen a picture from the interior facing camera.
Now that isn't to say Tesla doesn't have a looming autopilot problem.
The problem that they're going to have is people will start to steer clear of Tesla's on the road because of unpredictable behavior.
False braking
Failed automatic lane changes
Odd behavior in the right lane where the car goes to the right anytime on onramp merges in (AP still does the hunt for the center thing).
I love my Model 3, but I have to admit I'm often baffled by things I witness other Model 3's doing.
We're going to be thought of as worse than Prius drivers.
My recollection was the video was a stunt.
sreams
Member
Except that Tesla's feature isn't called "autopilot". It's called "Autopilot". It's a product name. Not a feature description. The Chevy Bolt isn't an actual bolt of lightning either.
"Autopilot" is the perfect name for the system.
We have AP in airplanes. It's called Autopilot, but nobody expects the crew to be able to take a nap or just all go back to the cabin. Someone has to be at the controls at all times, able to take control at any moment.
If Tesla can't call their system autopilot, then the terminology must no longer be used in the aeronautical domain either. If the name remains in use in airplanes, then Tesla can call it the same in their cars.
I agree that the public needs to be educated. I also agree that Tesla has a habit of instilling in the general public the notion that their systems are more capable than they are. But when you get into the car their messaging is VERY clear: Keep your hands on the steering wheel. Stay alert. Be able to take control at any moment.
There is nothing misleading there. People put their cats into microwaves, allegedly because there were no specific warning labels initially. Tesla already has those warning labels. Ignore them at your own peril.
Went to YouTube just so that I could thumbs down your video. Terrible content. Terrible thinking process behind this. Also, your attitude is elitist in thinking that people who buy the 35K one won't know how to use AP safely if they add it on.
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