Dragy times for Plaid and LR

[Richbot]

Also, on the 163mph limiter limiting 'Ring times - maybe by 5-ish seconds. Even Plaid will not have many places it can touch 163. The 919 didn't crest 300kph (186mph) all that often even with a literal ton of downforce, half as much weight, and cornering at speeds 50kph or more higher than Plaid will be capable of. There are only really three straights where you can deploy a thousand horsepower for more than a few seconds at a time when you also weigh 5000lb. And when you hit the limiter, you're still going 163 mph, which is quite quick, it's not like the car stops...there aren't many cars in the world that will slam into their limiter harder than Plaid, heh. Also, without water cooling or brake fans, I'm not sure how you get Plaid to stop repeatedly from 200mph...you do eventually have to stop to charge the car and when you do you will want the brakes to still be solid. So the 163 mph limiter might only be relevant if you're only doing one lap...these cars are fast enough and heavy enough that they're probably bumping against the limits of materials science in getting a brake to work reliably on a track like the 'Ring. Even carbon ceramics aren't invincible, for that, you need carbon-carbon

 

[Brando]

again, it is the tires that have blow-outs (brakes don't prevent that)

 

[TorqueMonster]

Yep! The current speculation is that the Trak Pack will include some form of upgraded brakes, such as carbon ceramics. This fits that to a tee.

I was thinking a similar thought in that they are going to equip the car with the Trak Pack. And it makes perfectly good sense to do so to obtain the best times. Can't wait to see these ring times!

 

[TorqueMonster]

some more good data coming our way soon...

https://www.youtube.com/post/UgwCbFS_Biv7S0y03oR4AaABCQ

 

[AMGF]

The only LR that ran anything useful so far has now posted the video. I can't believe that it's the only data we have for the LR. Come on LR owners!

 

[VolcanoTacos]

One thing that would piss me off is if Tesla starts offering Plaid+ package once all the early adopters have had their regular Plaid. Especially if they have the active rear spoiler hidden in the top of the trunk…

This is pretty much 100% going to happen, it’s just a matter of time. Like a year after the p90d came out then the p100d came, then a couple years after the p100d came out then it was the raven etc. There isn’t anything magical about the plaid that will make it their “final version” they will keep improving and the current version getting cheaper over the long run. I wouldn’t doubt if the current plaid will be $100k or less in 2-3 years then the plaid+ will be here with the new batteries for $130k and the cycle goes on and on.

 

[Richbot]

I think they're going to stick with the current hardware and body on S/X for a long, long time personally. Like, Toyota-levels of long. Remember the Tundra, last fully redesigned in 2007? Still on sale today with lots of improvements along the way? Not slated to be replaced until next year? It'll be like that, until they sunset the 18650 entirely. That same timeline puts the full S/X redesign somewhere in the late 2020's. If people love the product and you keep improving it (Like the Tundra, which is still the only pickup made in Texas!) it'll still sell reasonably well. Tundra's #1 headline feature is you never ever have to worry about it breaking on you. Obviously Tesla doesn't offer that feature, but they have other upsides, heh

They need to get new models and new factories pooping out batteries (aka cars and trucks) ASAP. I wouldn't waste another minute on S/X dev other than bugs/engineering problems that crop up. Which of course is a full-time job for hundreds because "public beta all the things"

 

[EndlessPlaid]

I think they're going to stick with the current hardware and body on S/X for a long, long time personally. Like, Toyota-levels of long. Remember the Tundra, last fully redesigned in 2007? Still on sale today with lots of improvements along the way? Not slated to be replaced until next year? It'll be like that, until they sunset the 18650 entirely.

That could be the case, but I think that the 4680 Model S is no more than 5 years away. The Model X though.... that one may end up doing as you say.

 

[Richbot]

There is enough engineering info out there on the structural pack that it seems idiotic, to me, to plop the structural pack into a body shell that wasn't designed for it. Why submit to the weight and packaging constraints of a shell designed to carry 1500lb of nearly dead weight when your 1200lb 4680 pack can carry (and resist twisting/bending forces) itself on its own?

Which means you're making an all-new car. If you look at Tesla's battery day presentation, the floorpan seems to need to be designed for it, and they intend it for use with two gigapress castings front and rear. Which sortof explains why "plaid is so good we don't need plaid+" was a big bunch of marketing hooey designed to mask the fact that the promised 4680-based, 500+ mile range, pack is not going in the current S/X, ever.

 

[EndlessPlaid]

There is enough engineering info out there on the structural pack that it seems idiotic, to me, to plop the structural pack into a body shell that wasn't designed for it. Why carry the weight of a shell designed to carry 1500lb of nearly dead weight when your 1200lb 4680 pack can carry (and resist twisting/bending forces) on its own?

Which means you're making an all-new car. Which sortof explains why "plaid is so good we don't need plaid+" was a big bunch of marketing hooey designed to mask the fact that the promised 4680-based, 500+ mile range, pack is not going in the current S/X, ever.

Exactly correct. This is pretty much an all new car, but Tesla hasn't changed the way they build it, like the 4680 MY. Whenever Tesla decides to a full exterior update, as well as maybe another interior, that's when I would expect them to move the S and X over to the castings and structural pack.

 

[omarsultan]

I think the "+" will show up, but it will be in the form of a track package that layers onto the Plaid. The question is if will be available as a retrofit or not. When Tesla came out with the P85+, it was strictly a BTO option and not retrofittable (in a cost-effective manner) because of different suspension components.

I also question if the 4680 ever comes to the S/X--it would would be almost a complete re-spin to support a structural 4680 pack and I cannot see them doing that anytime soon, certainly not before they have worked of the backlog for the Semi, CTs and steady state on the Model Y, which is a couple of years at least. I do seem them evolving cell chemistry and maybe pack density, so we should still see range increases like we did with the prior iterations of the S.

 

[EndlessPlaid]

I think the "+" will show up, but it will be in the form of a track package that layers onto the Plaid. The question is if will be available as a retrofit or not. When Tesla came out with the P85+, it was strictly a BTO option and not retrofittable (in a cost-effective manner) because of different suspension components.

I also question if the 4680 ever comes to the S/X--it would would be almost a complete re-spin to support a structural 4680 pack and I cannot see them doing that anytime soon, certainly not before they have worked of the backlog for the Semi, CTs and steady state on the Model Y, which is a couple of years at least. I do seem them evolving cell chemistry and maybe pack density, so we should still see range increases like we did with the prior iterations of the S.

Totally agree. It will be quite a long time before the S gets the 4680s. Tesla may end up sticking with the 18650s for most of the decade, and then switching over once they cannot extract anymore range and performance from the current form-factor. The 18650s are doing a stellar job as they are right now, no need to change them.

 

[TwoK4drSi]

Not. Even. Close. *porsche crying*

 

[JADCa]

Wow, the Taycan wasn't even in that race. It is amazing how slow the Taycan looked, and it is NOT a slow car.

 

[omarsultan]

I love the first run from the Taycan PoV, where we don't see the Tesla, then it pops into view, then just keeps going.

 

[Richbot]

Tenths matter a lot at these speeds. 10 tenths is a butt-kicking

 

[AMGF]

Not. Even. Close. *porsche crying*

To the LR owners saying it is just a second quicker, well the Taycan TurboS would still beat the LR and it gets destroyed by the Plaid. My goal is not to bash the LR owners, just to remind them that the Plaid is much quicker than that 1 sec would seem to let them believe.

 

[AMGF]

This is pretty much 100% going to happen, it’s just a matter of time. Like a year after the p90d came out then the p100d came, then a couple years after the p100d came out then it was the raven etc. There isn’t anything magical about the plaid that will make it their “final version” they will keep improving and the current version getting cheaper over the long run. I wouldn’t doubt if the current plaid will be $100k or less in 2-3 years then the plaid+ will be here with the new batteries for $130k and the cycle goes on and on.

What I meant was not that I hope Plaid is the end of the S line forever. I'd just hate that a track package option would show up before the year is over. Talk about screwing up the early adopters. If they were to launch a Plaid+ or Track Pack in a couple years yeah sure who cares. But 6 months into the life cycle of a new model would be a slap to the face.

 

[JADCa]

To the LR owners saying it is just a second quicker, well the Taycan TurboS would still beat the LR and it gets destroyed by the Plaid. My goal is not to bash the LR owners, just to remind them that the Plaid is much quicker than that 1 sec would seem to let them believe.

To be fair, going from 9.2 to 10.4 is a MUCH bigger killing than the 10.4 to 10.8 with the LR gaining at the finish line.... Plus the LR is faster than the Taycan Turbo S in a rolling race, so I would give the EDGE to the Taycan over the LR, but the Plaid destroyed it.

 

[byeLT4]

Dang I didn't think the Taycan trapped that hard. 129.90 129.99 and 130.03. I think that 60-130 would be a great race for the LR. Does anyone know where the Taycan shifts at?