Dragy times for Plaid and LR

[omarsultan]

Yoke absolutely was a thing:

Man that was more stressful to watch than expected especially with the tire noises. Also, what is the device in front of the IC--I thought is was interesting that the speed shown on that was different than speed shown on the IC.

 

[EndlessPlaid]

Man that was more stressful to watch than expected especially with the tire noises. Also, what is the device in front of the IC--I thought is was interesting that the speed shown on that was different than speed shown on the IC.

That was likely GPS speed to indicated speed. Tesla speedo is pretty much the most accurate speedometer put there, as it takes into account motor rpm, etc..., but it looks like it still overreads at high speeds still.

 

[WilliamG]

Tbh, quite perplexed at the speed on the straight...... should've been doing nearly if not all of 200 mph, not 166...... I mean we are talking about a car that will likely get 186 mph in the mid to low 14 second range......It should've been at 200 mph 1/2 to 3/4 of the way down the straight. Yeah the limiter is still in place. They haven't turned the wick all the way up yet... cannot wait to see happens when they do.

Agreed. This was clearly to show you what the CURRENT Plaid can do. It’ll be back for more when it’s uncorked. By that time I expect track-software tuning will be better, too.

Interesting Tesla’s video was 7:35, not the 7:30 run…

 

[ICUDoc]

Yoke absolutely was a thing:

Not only did he use the yoke, he was charging his mobile phone!
Imagine how much more power he WOULD have had- top speed 200mph definitely!!

Edit: Dear God that car is soooo fast! Look at the UPHILL acceleration from 100 to 200kph at 3:12- unbelievable!!

 

[AMGF]

Ok, first thing. Roadster. That will be the low 7 minute monster. It's important to remember that a very likely reason that the Plus was cancelled was it's proximity to the base Roadster's performance. The Plus was going to be the Tesla's crazy, 4680-powered, 300-500 pound lighter, 8-second, low 7 minute beast of a Plaid. I think people sometimes underestimate the value of the 4680s, and the improvements they will make. It is revolutionary, not evolutionary. That Plaid is still coming, just without the Plus. It's just a question of when IMO. Additionally, @Klwtts spotted that red Plaid with the spoiler, but at the same time spotted an unmarked, black Plaid with no wing. That was likely the stock Plaid available today.

Although not quite at the level of the 4680 Plus, it was really not far behind. TBH, I was a little surprised, and I expected it to be faster on the Nürburgring, but I don't think Tesla is done with the stock Plaid. Not even a little bit. Also, we know very little of today's run. We know the time, and the average speed. We don't know if it was still limited to 163 (a massive hindrance if true), the skill of the driver, the SOC, etc... Hopefully more details get shown soon.

Another interesting tidbit: For the first time a few months ago, Tesla granted an aftermarket modifier of Teslas access to the car's computer to someone outside of Tesla. Like actual development and testing SW IIRC. That aftermarket company was nonother than Unplugged Performance. There is a high probability that UP is destined to become Tesla's in-house tuning sub-brand. Like AMG. It would be interesting, but not unlikely, that the people running at the Nürburgring and Laguna are UP themselves, running alongside Tesla, doing the validation and testing of the Track Pack, with Tesla's full support.

Lots of things. First, pilots for testing days have to be Nurburgring approved. There are no ham fisted drivers approved to do private testing.

SOC, why would Tesla brag about a time that is not the best they could do? They’d just shut up about it and wait for the best lap/conditions.

Plaid+, will come. I am not holding my breath though. Elon said Model3P would have ludicrous 3 years ago. He needs the new batteries for the CT, the semi and the Roadster (and the Y?). Not sure the 9sec@150mph S will have first dibs on them.

As the actual Plaid not being done, they had 2 years to develop the car. Not sure how much more they can do. These Ring days are super important. It’s the benchmark. Once your official time is out, that’s it. If they want a new time, they’ll have to come back, with all the costs, time and risks of crashing.

Why would the car be limited to 163mph? To show what a stock Plaid would do? No I don’t buy it. You don’t invest colossal smount of money to show what last week fish is about. if the car can really do 200mph, you unlock it and you say in two weeks, when the ota update is ready, that’s what a stock Plaid will run. Unless the car was really limited to 163mph for other reasons (reliability?) then maybe the 200mph will never happen. So now to get quicker you need something else, something big.

UP maybe the something big. Tesla’s AMG. Yeah but AMG cars are sold at the Merc dealers. You don’t buy a C450 and send it to AMG for modifications to make it a C63. So unless Tesla sells Model S-UP, it’s not comparable to AMG, more like Porsche Ruf or BMW Alpina. The price premium UP charges is also more in line with Ruf, than AMG. 10k$ for front carbon-ceramics? Yeah sure.

All in all, the new Plaid is possibly the best street car ever, but as I tell anyone that would listen to me, it’s not a track car. Too heavy. Doesn’t perform all that well for its power. Under-braked. Under-tired. Now I did wish I was wrong, but that 7:30 though good, is proof it’s not great on a track. It’s quick, but it’s not even the quickest sedan.

 

[Aleks0404]

Lots of things. First, pilots for testing days have to be Nurburgring approved. There are no ham fisted drivers approved to do private testing.

SOC, why would Tesla brag about a time that is not the best they could do? They’d just shut up about it and wait for the best lap/conditions.

Plaid+, will come. I am not holding my breath though. Elon said Model3P would have ludicrous 3 years ago. He needs the new batteries for the CT, the semi and the Roadster (and the Y?). Not sure the 9sec@150mph S will have first dibs on them.

As the actual Plaid not being done, they had 2 years to develop the car. Not sure how much they can do. These Ring days are super important. It’s the benchmark. Once your official time is out, that’s it. If they want a new time, they’ll have to come back, with all the costs, time and risks of crashing.

Why would the car be limited to 163mph? To show what a stock Plaid would do? No I don’t buy it. You don’t invest colossal smount of money to show what last week fish is about. if the car can really do 200mph, you unlock it and you say in two weeks, when the ota update is ready, that’s what a stock Plaid will run. Unless the car was really limited to 163mph for other reasons (reliability?) then maybe the 200mph will never happen. So now to get quicker you need something else, something big.

UP maybe the something big. Tesla’s AMG. Yeah but AMG cars are sold at the Merc dealers. You don’t buy a C450 and send it to AMG for modifications to make it a C63. So unless Tesla sells Model S-UP, it’s not comparable to AMG, more like Porsche Ruf or BMW Alpina. The price premium UP charges is also more in line with Ruf, than AMG. 10k$ for front carbon-ceramics? Yeah sure.

All in all, the new Plaid is possibly the best street car ever, but as I tell anyone that would listen to me, it’s not a track car. Too heavy. Doesn’t perform all that well for its power. Under-braked. Under-tired. Now I did wish I was wrong, but that 7:30 though good, is proof it’s not great on a track. It’s quick, but it’s not even the quickest sedan.

Agree 100%


If they would give the current Plaid better brakes and a different suspension setup from the get go now that would be the difference maker.
Proper setup suspension and better brakes and the car is in the low 7 minutes nothing more is needed.

Also understand that the minority of Plaid owners care about this and Tesla wanted a comfortable fast Sedan.

Elon where is my car?

 

[Aleks0404]

On more thing to settle the LR vs Plaid debate. LR should not worry about the Plaid you guys should worry about the Model S Performance as the car will be faster at the dragstrip as well from any red light. Ask me how i know? 10.47 1/4 mile
Just wanted to keep things into perspective.

Happy Friday!

 

[bhzmark]

heavier wheels.

the OEM 19” are lighter than the OEM 21” which, btw are not the same as the Arachnids from earlier Model Ss — they are heavier.

date are still held by the 21s with those awesome PS4S tires... so until we see otherwise the 19s are not faster.

the worst 1/4 and 0-60 times are also held by the 21s with those awesome PS4S tires.

Hardly any 19 Plaids have been delivered. sample size dude.

 

[EndlessPlaid]

the OEM 19” are lighter than the OEM 21” which, btw are not the same as the Arachnids from earlier Model Ss — they are heavier.

the worst 1/4 and 0-60 times are also held by the 21s with those awesome PS4S tires.

Hardly any 19 Plaids have been delivered. sample size dude.

I know. I was referring to the Arachnids.

 

[bhzmark]

I know. I was referring to the Arachnids.

There are two different Arachnids. The older lighter forged ones, and the newer heavier cast ones that are being delivered on the current 21 Plaids.

Also a similar version of the 19 vs 21 wheel discussion (distinguished from a tire discussion) has been had for years. It all comes down to weight. For years the 19 were the lighter and thus faster wheels. Newer P90DL makes 662 hp at the battery!!!

 

[bhzmark]

Are refreshed Arachnids forged or not?

I have heard speculation that the new Arachnids are cast and not forged like the previous ones. Does anyone have official word on this one way or another?

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[EndlessPlaid]

Lots of things. First, pilots for testing days have to be Nurburgring approved. There are no ham fisted drivers approved to do private testing.

SOC, why would Tesla brag about a time that is not the best they could do? They’d just shut up about it and wait for the best lap/conditions.

Plaid+, will come. I am not holding my breath though. Elon said Model3P would have ludicrous 3 years ago. He needs the new batteries for the CT, the semi and the Roadster (and the Y?). Not sure the 9sec@150mph S will have first dibs on them.

As the actual Plaid not being done, they had 2 years to develop the car. Not sure how much more they can do. These Ring days are super important. It’s the benchmark. Once your official time is out, that’s it. If they want a new time, they’ll have to come back, with all the costs, time and risks of crashing.

Why would the car be limited to 163mph? To show what a stock Plaid would do? No I don’t buy it. You don’t invest colossal smount of money to show what last week fish is about. if the car can really do 200mph, you unlock it and you say in two weeks, when the ota update is ready, that’s what a stock Plaid will run. Unless the car was really limited to 163mph for other reasons (reliability?) then maybe the 200mph will never happen. So now to get quicker you need something else, something big.

UP maybe the something big. Tesla’s AMG. Yeah but AMG cars are sold at the Merc dealers. You don’t buy a C450 and send it to AMG for modifications to make it a C63. So unless Tesla sells Model S-UP, it’s not comparable to AMG, more like Porsche Ruf or BMW Alpina. The price premium UP charges is also more in line with Ruf, than AMG. 10k$ for front carbon-ceramics? Yeah sure.

All in all, the new Plaid is possibly the best street car ever, but as I tell anyone that would listen to me, it’s not a track car. Too heavy. Doesn’t perform all that well for its power. Under-braked. Under-tired. Now I did wish I was wrong, but that 7:30 though good, is proof it’s not great on a track. It’s quick, but it’s not even the quickest sedan.

Totally agreed on your last paragraph there. Definitely a street car first, although it's still GT3RS speed on the Nurburgring.
Tbh I have absolutely no clue as to the limited speed on the straight. Most likely, this was to show exactly what the current car can do. It's also possible that part of their time in Germany may be spent doing some last testing on the Autobahn before unlocking 200 mph.
And last thing: who's to say that UP won't end up being that way? If this partnership goes well, it's not unlikely that mirroring AMG, Tesla eventually purchases them. Or maybe it could end up being like BMW and Alpina like you said.

 

[EndlessPlaid]

There are two different Arachnids. The older lighter forged ones, and the newer heavier cast ones that are being delivered on the current 21 Plaids.

Also a similar version of the 19 vs 21 wheel discussion (distinguished from a tire discussion) has been had for years. It all comes down to weight. For years the 19 were the lighter and thus faster wheels. Newer P90DL makes 662 hp at the battery!!!

Ok maybe I wasn't clear: I was saying that in that article about the wheels, they only look at a car which doesn't rely on a huge amount of traction to accelerate. They also took into account the inherently heavier bigger wheels, without that traction benefit. The Plaid is vastly different in this respect. It's a good article for basic car physics and behaviors, but not quite apples to apples with Plaid.

 

[bhzmark]

Ok maybe I wasn't clear: I was saying that in that article about the wheels, they only look at a car which doesn't rely on a huge amount of traction to accelerate. They also took into account the inherently heavier bigger wheels, without that traction benefit. The Plaid is vastly different in this respect. It's a good article for basic car physics and behaviors, but not quite apples to apples with Plaid.

Are you talking about differences in tires or differences in wheel sizes?

 

[EndlessPlaid]

Are talking about differences in tires or differences in wheel sizes?

That article you quoted last night.

 

[bhzmark]

That article you quoted last night.

Yeah, but what is your point?
1) 21” wheel size is better/faster than 19” wheel size
2) 21” Plaid cast Arachnids are better than 19” Tempest?
3) the tires that come on 21” are better than the tires that come on the 19”

or something else?

 

[EndlessPlaid]

Yeah, but what is your point?
1) 21” wheel size is better/faster than 19” wheel size
2) 21” Plaid cast Arachnids are better than 19” Tempest?
3) the tires that come on 21” are better than the tires that come on the 19”

or something else?

That the 21s will be usablely faster than the 19s. When I first said that, and that Tesla would not have given the slower car to the press, and especially as headlines are big factor of Plaid. You then brought up the article a little later on.

 

[AMGF]

Totally agreed on your last paragraph there. Definitely a street car first, although it's still GT3RS speed on the Nurburgring.
Tbh I have absolutely no clue as to the limited speed on the straight. Most likely,, this was to show exactly what the current car can do. It's also possible that part of their time in Germany may be spent doing some last testing on the Autobahn before unlocking 200 mph.
And last thing: who's to say that UP won't end up being that way? If this partnership goes well, it's not unlikely that mirroring AMG, Tesla eventually purchases them. Or maybe it could end up being like BMW and Alpina like you said.

I agree we don’t know if Tesla will one day offer a PlaidUp. I just go with what I can observe. They can barely deliver cars with only a few options for now. It’s hard to imagine them being able to integrate a new division that would need to take cars out of the production line for upgraded wheels, brakes, suspension, aero and maybe batteries/drivetrains mods and then somehow have Tesla deliver these cars to customers.

Maybe one day. But I don’t expect much from a company that had to cancel silver paint because it screwed up their production. Tesla can’t even supply demand as is. Time will tell.

 

[bhzmark]

And what is the reason(s) explaining why you have concluded that the 21s would be faster than the 19s?
1) wheel size?
2) wheel weight?
3) tire on the 21s is better than the tire on the 19s?
4) It just came to you in a dream and you don’t know why, but damnit it is true.
5) something else?

 

[EndlessPlaid]

I agree we don’t know if Tesla will one day offer a PlaidUp. I just go with what I can observe. They can barely deliver cars with only a few options for now. It’s hard to imagine them being able to create a new division that would need to take cars out of the production line for upgraded wheels, brakes, suspension, aero and maybe batteries/drivetrains mods and then somehow have Tesla deliver these cars to customers.

Maybe one day. But I don’t expect much from a company that had to cancel silver paint because it screwed up their production. Tesla can’t even supply demand as is. Time will tell.

Yeah we will have to see what happens on that front for sure. Maybe once Fremont is dedicated to low volume cars like Roadster and S/X, then they will have the breathing room.