Thanks for the correction. I was under the impression that the wiring might need to be different because of the continuous use requirement and heat everyone is always talking about (75c, 90c etc).
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Electrician Woes [issues getting an electrician to quote me]
- Thread starter SumOne
- Start date
Thanks for the correction. I was under the impression that the wiring might need to be different because of the continuous use requirement and heat everyone is always talking about (75c, 90c etc).
That is built into the usage of it--not the installation. A 14-30 outlet is spec'ed and installed exactly as it is, as a 30A circuit. So then intermittent loads get to use it up to 30A, but continuous loads are only allowed to use it up to 24A.
jackmott
Member
I used the same guy that did my solar panels, if you are thinking of doing solar panels, they will have electricians that can put in an outlet in for you too.
MaskedRacerX
Member
Here's what I'd do (and sort of did, but had a slightly different path to get there ...)
Just get a quote from an electrician to add a 50a circuit and a receptacle, either an N14-50 or an N6-50. As someone pointed out, those are NEMA specifications for a heavy duty 50a outlet, which will (should) have the appropriate grade wiring to the 50a circuit breaker in your box.
Some quick background on the two:
The N14-50 is sometimes more costly due to needing an extra neutral, and for charging an EV, it doesn't buy you anything (outside of having a box you could use at an RV park), so you might ask about an N6-50 instead.
These are the various physical plug configurations, just as an FYI:
People are sometimes surprised by the size of the 50a plugs - left number plug config, right number, max amps.
Don't even talk about your use case with the contractor, just get a quote on the outlet being installed: breaker, wiring, receptacle/mounting box. If the install is within 1-2 feet of your box, and there's nothing weird about the existing install/construction, it shouldn't cost a ton. This assumes your existing box has space for a 50a breaker and your existing power is reasonably up to date.
Then buy whatever EVSE you want, a couple of lug bolts in a stud, hang it up, plug it in and you're done!
Since you have what sounds like an inclination to possibly add another EV to your vehicles, this provides an outstanding plan to get a J1772 spec charger, that will work directly with a RAV4 and with the Tesla included adapter, work perfectly well with the Model 3.
That's exactly what we do, share a 40a Grizzl-E Smart charger between our TM3 and a Wrangler 4xe. The vehicle negotiates the charge level, so there's nothing to do other than plug in, the Tesla gets 40a (~36 miles/hour), and the Jeep gets 32a. For long duration, constant consumption (like charging an EV), you should not pull more than 80% of the rated amps of the circuit, i.e., a 50a circuit - 20% = 40a.
The Adapter is just a small, round piece that sticks onto the end of the car side of the connector (mine is either on the charger, or in a little utility type hook/holder right above the charger).
The thing I like about not hardwiring the charger, is I can easily unplug it (and even transport it if needed), but it allows be to swap chargers if - for example - the Grizzl-E was to fail, I'd just fall back to the included TMC and I picked up a 6-50 adapter for it (the Jeep is a PHEV, so it wouldn't be as much of an issue).
In fact, you COULD just do that very same thing in the shorter term. Tesla sells additional plug (in the photo above), that allow the included-with-the-car Mobile Connector to plug into a 50a circuit, either a 14-50 or a 6-50, though it's limited to 32a.
We got a really nice install on the N6-50, for right around $220 (northeast Florida), and I scored that charger before the price hike so it was $440, and it's a beast (designed in Canada, for their weather), 24' charging cord that's the size of a fire hose, all metal, big stainless bracket (with a quick release) and as I mentioned it's an N6-50 plug, but it's also available as an N14-50 like many chargers.
Just get a quote from an electrician to add a 50a circuit and a receptacle, either an N14-50 or an N6-50. As someone pointed out, those are NEMA specifications for a heavy duty 50a outlet, which will (should) have the appropriate grade wiring to the 50a circuit breaker in your box.
Some quick background on the two:
- N14-50 is a 50a spec, uses 4 wires, it has an extra neutral, the connector is 4 prong. It's popular in RV parks, because it's 2-phase, it can supply both 240 and 120 (which is a common need in an RV).
- N6-50 is a 50a spec, uses 3 wires, only supplies 240v, the connector is 3 prong. It's common for use with high power equipment like welders.
The N14-50 is sometimes more costly due to needing an extra neutral, and for charging an EV, it doesn't buy you anything (outside of having a box you could use at an RV park), so you might ask about an N6-50 instead.
These are the various physical plug configurations, just as an FYI:
People are sometimes surprised by the size of the 50a plugs - left number plug config, right number, max amps.
Don't even talk about your use case with the contractor, just get a quote on the outlet being installed: breaker, wiring, receptacle/mounting box. If the install is within 1-2 feet of your box, and there's nothing weird about the existing install/construction, it shouldn't cost a ton. This assumes your existing box has space for a 50a breaker and your existing power is reasonably up to date.
Then buy whatever EVSE you want, a couple of lug bolts in a stud, hang it up, plug it in and you're done!
Since you have what sounds like an inclination to possibly add another EV to your vehicles, this provides an outstanding plan to get a J1772 spec charger, that will work directly with a RAV4 and with the Tesla included adapter, work perfectly well with the Model 3.
That's exactly what we do, share a 40a Grizzl-E Smart charger between our TM3 and a Wrangler 4xe. The vehicle negotiates the charge level, so there's nothing to do other than plug in, the Tesla gets 40a (~36 miles/hour), and the Jeep gets 32a. For long duration, constant consumption (like charging an EV), you should not pull more than 80% of the rated amps of the circuit, i.e., a 50a circuit - 20% = 40a.
The Adapter is just a small, round piece that sticks onto the end of the car side of the connector (mine is either on the charger, or in a little utility type hook/holder right above the charger).
The thing I like about not hardwiring the charger, is I can easily unplug it (and even transport it if needed), but it allows be to swap chargers if - for example - the Grizzl-E was to fail, I'd just fall back to the included TMC and I picked up a 6-50 adapter for it (the Jeep is a PHEV, so it wouldn't be as much of an issue).
In fact, you COULD just do that very same thing in the shorter term. Tesla sells additional plug (in the photo above), that allow the included-with-the-car Mobile Connector to plug into a 50a circuit, either a 14-50 or a 6-50, though it's limited to 32a.
We got a really nice install on the N6-50, for right around $220 (northeast Florida), and I scored that charger before the price hike so it was $440, and it's a beast (designed in Canada, for their weather), 24' charging cord that's the size of a fire hose, all metal, big stainless bracket (with a quick release) and as I mentioned it's an N6-50 plug, but it's also available as an N14-50 like many chargers.
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
You got a lot of great advice already but I'll throw in my 2 cents:
- Don't lie to the electrician, they know what you're up to. If you sound knowledgeable they'll quote what you asked for without any "Tesla tax" (e.g. "A 50A GFCI protected circuit with an industrial grade 14-50 receptacle", or "A 60A circuit for the wall mounted charger I will provide"). Yelp and Nextdoor are good ways to find them.
- Ask about getting it permitted. If they squirm and don't know what that might cost (usually $100 - $200) that's a red flag that they might not be confident or qualified.
- The federal tax credit intended to promote diesel pollution has a footnote that lets you recover 30% of the total cost of all EVSE associated parts/labor costs. A good electrician will inform you of this without inflating their price accordingly.
- Using the included mobile charger is the lowest cost option and is perfectly adequate, but it involves a bunch of special parts like the $150 GFCI breaker, fancy industrial outlet, pigtail adapter, cord hook and "wart" holder, etc. So by the time you factor in the 30% tax credit, you're only saving maybe $175 over the cost of Tesla's nice wall charger which includes everything you need other than the simple $12 breaker.
- You will never be stranded on the side of the road wishing you had the mobile charger in your trunk but you might stay at an Airbnb, mountain cabin, or relative's house where it could prove useful. It's not hard to unplug the mobile charger from your garage and bring it with you on such occasions, but of course it's better if you have the wall charger so you don't have to.
- Avoid aftermarket chargers unless you have a very compelling reason (sorry @MaskedRacerX ). The 1772 adapter is a pain to unplug requiring 3 hands and impeccable timing, plus that adapter is the thing you really want to keep in your car for charging at work, the airport, or out on a random stretch of highway after some very poor planning.
- If you might get a second EV someday (you will) it'll be nice to have power on the other side of the garage too. Consider quoting that now as it might only add a few hundred dollars today vs. $1000 another day. Plus you get 30% back.
- Best locations are chest-height at the rear left or right and it pays to optimize this. The last thing you want to do when rushing off to work with coffee in one hand is try to neatly coil up a long garden hose-like length of cord with the other.
MaskedRacerX
Member
What the f ...
Yeah, I kind of backed into the charger from the non-Tesla vehicle, that was my "different path" I mentioned above. We got the 4xe first, so we went aftermarket charger since it's J1772, I mean, I kind of had an inkling I might consider a Tesla, but that a couple of months later. The charger easily reaches both ports too, I back in the TM3 and pull in the Jeep in front-first, under the top (it's lift up with an electric hoist), so both ports are like 3-4 feet from the center of the rear garage wall where the Grizzl-E is mounted.
I'm not sure I follow the 3-hands and timing, I can install/remove the adapter super easy (using my hulk-like strength ...
), works perfectly, but I will say our use case / lifestyle (whatever you want to call it ...) may be a bit unique - read on We both work from home, and we travel 99.9% of the time together (i.e., same car), so there's never any special planning for what we need to take with us. If the three of us fly, we take the Tesla to the airport, I toss the adapter in the bag with the TMC/adapters, same for, well, just about everything, trips to Universal, down to the BIL's other place in NSB, etc. If we take the Jeep, we mostly are together at the beach, and it gets less use so I only have to remove the Tesla adapter once every 1-2 weeks.
So if we were both on the go, driving to solo all the time, needed to manage who has what adapters, who can use the charger, and when, yeah, I could see using a native Tesla charger and having a separate non-Tesla setup for the other vehicle.
In Los Angeles where an owner can self-install, then get it "permitted". I did that, no GFCI breaker for a 14-50 NEMA. I was told Ca is on 2017 code. Just had an inspector check and OK the work about a month ago. Total cost for install: $90. About $100 for the inspection. Inspector agreed: no GFCI required. FWIW.
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
Indeed California is on NEC 2017 as are most states, but 2017 is the revision that first required GFCI's for EV outlets. See NEC 2017 Section 625.54.
And 5 states are already on NEC 2020 which eliminated the 240V exemption from the general rule. So basically any location that had a GFCI requirement for 120V outlets (garage, kitchen, outdoors, etc.) now has the same requirement for 240V outlets.
And 5 states are already on NEC 2020 which eliminated the 240V exemption from the general rule. So basically any location that had a GFCI requirement for 120V outlets (garage, kitchen, outdoors, etc.) now has the same requirement for 240V outlets.
Garage was not the factor, though. The update added to the 2017 code says that ANY receptacle being installed for the purpose of charging an EV MUST use a GFCI breaker. Period. Your inspector apparently wasn't aware of that addition to the code.
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