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Max charging rate for 50A 240v w/nema 14-50?

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I want to really thank you guys for going above and beyond answering my question! 👍🏻👍🏻 You've made me feel a lot better knowing that it's not possible to get greater than a 30 mi/hr ROC with my setup.

I'm definitely happy with the 30 mi/hr—this wasn't about getting a faster ROC, I just wanted to ensure that it was money well spent and that I was getting the best bang for my buck. 😊

Definitely an interesting topic, and I've learned something thanks to you guys.
 
Annoyingly, I think a 40A breaker AND wiring (?) is allowed for a 14-50 receptacle, since there is no NEMA 40A receptacle. One of the reasons the UMC is limited to 32A now probably! Someone can correct me if I am wrong. Side conversation though, irrelevant here.
Yeah, you're right about that weirdo 40A, put in the NEC (I think) for 40A clothes driers. Many of us have theorized that's why the MC with a NEMA14-50 adapter won't go higher than 32A, because Tesla doesn't know if there's a 50A or 40A breaker out there. Not wanting to set Houses on Fire (or tripping breakers left, right, and center), they limit the current to 80% of 40A, or 32A. Or maybe it's just the gauge wire they could fit into the MC. Whee!
 
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Both a 3rd Quarter, 2018 Model 3 LR RWD

240V*48A*0.88/(76kWh/325mi) = 43rmi/hr, so 44mi/hr is the max I would expect there.

I’d be slightly surprised by 45rmi/hr I guess. Maybe efficiency is over 90-91% though! 47mi/hr seems impossible on that specific vehicle. Would need 95% efficiency and no voltage droop.

Does it do that? (Post a pic!)
 
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Thanks guys! I probably should have worded it differently, something like: "is anyone getting anything over 30 mi/hr with a 50a 240v connection plugged into a 14-50 outlet?"

I just paid $1400 for the job, but he had to run 90 feet of cable from my main panel, and that includes installing the sub panel and 14-50 outlet in the garage. After spending that amount of money I just want to make sure I'm getting the fastest rate of charge. 😊
There are several possible limits to the amperage of home charging:
  • Circuit. Amperage for continuous use should not exceed 80%. So the 50A circuit allows 40A charging.
  • EVSE. The current Tesla Mobile Connector can charge at up to 32A. You may be able to get other plug-in EVSEs that do 40A.
  • Car. If your car is a RWD / standard range model, it can charge at up to 32A. Long range and performance models can charge up to 48A.
  • Quality of receptacle. If the receptacle has half size steel contacts to the plug blades, it may overheat and melt at higher amperages (people have reported trouble starting at amperages between 24A and 30A). See the following image:
faulty-nema-receptacles-v0-bdyw4wmgyqw91.jpg
 
240V*48A*0.88/(76kWh/325mi) = 43rmi/hr, so 44mi/hr is the max I would expect there.

I’d be surprised by 45rmi/hr I guess. Maybe efficiency is over 90-91% though! 47mi/hr seems impossible on that specific vehicle.

Does it do that?
If I'm not mistaken, we actually have 125 VAC on each hot to neutral, so I get (really!) 250 VAC, rather than 240 VAC. I've seen 46 MoCpHr on the M3 all the time, rarely 47. But then one has to worry about calibrations and such.

The M3 I'm running is rated, I think, for 225 W-hr/mile, so 48*250/225 = 53 Miles of Charge per Hour; but that's not including the losses getting into the battery.

I'll plug in the cable, close the doors, then look in at the screen, Before everything goes on standby and the screen goes out, it'll start around 44 or 45 MoCpH; when the heat/AC go off and the lights go out, it'll up to 47; and then a minute or so later, everything goes dim. I've seen something similar on the MY.
 
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I get (really!) 250 VAC,
Getting 250V at the vehicle under load would do 46mi/hr. Seems like an install with fat, short wires. I get 234V or so under load I think.
The M3 I'm running is rated, I think, for 225 W-hr/mile
It is 234Wh/mi. Line is at 239Wh/mi.


Arrrggghh:

I have screwed up every single calculation here. Someone should have corrected me!!!

Increase them all by 1/0.955 = 1.047

So annoying. I will repost them all in a bit.
 
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Try this again, mentioning all cars mentioned so far and correcting what I said. Silly discrepancy between displayed rated miles and actual rated miles, I just forgot to account for it...so dumb!

All this is at 236V to account for voltage sag, so if your voltage sags more or less (as indicated in the car at max current), use a different value. I'll assume 89% efficiency.

2023 LR AWD: 236V*32A*0.89/(0.955*79kWh/358rmi) = 32rmi/hr

Last NCA SR+ (~2022): 236V*32A*0.89/(0.955*53.5kWh/263rmi) = 35rmi/hr (probably what you have seen reported)

2018 LR AWD: 236V*32A*0.89/(0.955*76kWh/310rmi) = 29rmi/hr

2018 LR RWD: 236V*32A*0.89/(0.955*76kWh/325rmi) = 30rmi/hr

Note when the car is new these values could be a couple % lower due to fatter rated miles (over degradation threshold).

And to get the other rates at 48A, just use 48A and assume the same efficiency (not quite right - it goes up slightly!).

So @Tronguy - sorry to doubt you - but I am glad there is zero discrepancy - curious what your voltage is under load!

2018 LR RWD: 236V*48A*0.89/(0.955*76kWh/325rmi) = 45rmi/hr. (So I totally believe 46-47rmi/hr in a less droopy scenario, and the efficiency could be a slight bit better at these very high charge rates.) Sorry!

And the max for the car in question in this thread would be at 48A:

2023 LR AWD: 236V*48A*0.89/(0.955*79kWh/358rmi) = 48rmi/hr

I am ashamed by my error.
 
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Im not nearly as math oriented as you (@AlanSubie4Life ) or @Tronguy , but my home also runs fairly high voltage. If I let my powerwalls supply power to my car charger when on grid, the volts reads 249 when it starts charging, and under full load its still at 245 / 246 volts. here is a pic of what it looks like under load @245 volts.

IMG_0393.jpg
 
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Im not nearly as math oriented as you (@AlanSubie4Life ) or @Tronguy , but my home also runs fairly high voltage. If I let my powerwalls supply power to my car charger when on grid, the volts reads 249 when it starts charging, and under full load its still at 245 / 246 volts. here is a pic of what it looks like under load @245 volts.

View attachment 919763
245V*48A*0.89/(0.955*76000Wh/310rmi) = 44.7mi/hr, so that all checks out. Obviously it's only to within 1% or so, so actual efficiency could be between 90.5% or 88.6%. (But we also don't know the current is exactly 48A.)

Crazy how low my voltage is, but that's the way it goes!
 
FWIW: The house is pretty new construction; the development, although small, was put together by local developers and has underground wiring; the transformer serving three of the houses is literally in my back yard, about 40 yards from the house; the service entrance for power is in the garage, the portion of the house closest to that transformer; the breaker box is at the service entrance, in the garage; and, finally, I’ve got solar power, and the the inverters and such are physically next to said breaker box, disconnects and all. So, you might say I’ve got a pretty stiff supply, here!

Next: As it happens, in my career, I’ve worked on no-kidding test equipment on and off. And not just as a user of $RANDOM voltmeters and such; I’ve worked in calibration labs back in the days before getting the degrees and for two memorable summers as a) a fix-it techie on a production line and b) a design engineer on some audio analysis gear. Lots of fun.

But that background makes me very wary of any calculations based on measured electrical parameters that claim to be accurate to 1% or better. Even bandgap voltage references, used everywhere as references for ADCs, aren’t that good. Even if one spent the big bucks to get a laser-trimmed one, the ADC itself would add to the inaccuracy. And we haven’t even got to the part where sensing component values drift with time, temperature, and voltage. This is why test equipment that promises 1% or better accuracies cost $$$ and need to go out to cal periodically. And equipment that can do stuff like that often have operating temperature ranges that keep them in air conditioned labs 😁 .

In fact, a piece of gear that can actually make 0.1% accurate power measurements over a wide range of voltage, current, and temperature is in my garage: it’s the utility-grade electric meter hooked up to the output of all those solar inverters. I had a look at the guts of the thing and its toroidal current sensors, partly because I had to install it, and partly due to interest. The thing definitely had been calibrated; all the delicate stuff was under a thick layer of hardened goo, the better to keep moisture and air pollution at bay; and you can bet that the magnetics were good from -40C to 100C. It had enough certification stamps to kill somebody. All of which makes sense: people get pretty picky about energy measurements when there’s money involved, and wanting a box like this to keep its calibration for, say, 20 years or so.

And one pays for the privilege: that box, and its single, accurate function, cost around $180 or so. Somehow, I don’t think that Tesla, what with its mass-produced cars and drive to lower costs, would spend that kind of money. I would guess that with some clever engineering they might be accurate to 2, 2.5 percent. And 5% if they were rushing.

Now, the Superchargers, where people pay Real Money for electrical energy, probably do have some seriously accurate energy meters in there. But I don’t think the cars would.
 
Curious why is this an issue? Do you drive and need to charge to 100% many times if the week?

My max charge is 32 with the mobile connector but I often lower this to 20 amp and I can charge to my regular daily 80% charge for the day. Enough for my daily 100 miles commute and many road trips I’ve taken.

It is nice to get 48amp from the Tesla wall connector when I’m charging at a hotel which is great since I only need a few hours until I get to 90% but again charge speed isn’t a big issue when I charge at home overnight.
 
Money for electrical energy, probably do have some seriously accurate energy meters in there. But I don’t think the cars would.
Maybe, maybe not, but that accuracy would not be that relevant to the discussion of charge rates. Sure, for the input voltage, but for that, you can just go with what the car says and everything follows.

And then the calculations (after I fixed all the wrong ones I posted with the 1/0.955 factor 😞 ) all will match exactly what you see in the car.

As I said earlier, the formulas (once they are correct!) are very deterministic.

The only thing that potentially makes them off (not sure whether they adjust or not, or whether they leave the rates incorrect) is a new car which has more energetic, swollen rated miles, as mentioned earlier. But once range loss starts showing the rates will always be right on the money.
 
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The older UMC's could do 40A, and there are J1772's that can do 40A. So it is possible to get 40A from a 14-50 without a wall connector if a Tesla owner wants to.

Holy crap.... I did not know there was a 40A Corded Moble Connector....
Literally every UMC shipped before the Model 3 was released was 40A, and you can get J1772's that do it too and just use the adapter that comes with the car.
 
Getting back to the OP’s observation:

It looks like my charge is maxing out at 32A and 30 mi/hr, which is great, but I'm reading that some people with the same setup are getting 35+ mi/hr.

I actually think this is low. Even if you assume 235V and a battery capacity of 80.5kWh that ends up at 31mi/hr. Not a big difference of course, but in general 32mi/hr is expected, and 33mi/hr is perhaps possible with high voltage.

Of course @Siciliano could have been rounding. And it is a very small difference! A picture would allow a check.

But anyway it seems like all is well and the question was answered (and as high as 36mi/hr off of 32A could be expected on the NCA SR+, which explains the reports).
 
Literally every UMC shipped before the Model 3 was released was 40A, and you can get J1772's that do it too and just use the adapter that comes with the car.
There were some Model 3s out in mid-2017 but most of the initial ones went to Tesla and SpaceX employees. The big Model 3 production ramp up didn't come until 2018. The UMC was changed from 40A down to the newer model that maxed out at 32A around the second week of December 2017. Our S75D from that month still included the 40A UMC and there were reports a few days after we took delivery that the new UMC was being included.
 
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Curious why is this an issue? Do you drive and need to charge to 100% many times if the week?

My max charge is 32 with the mobile connector but I often lower this to 20 amp and I can charge to my regular daily 80% charge for the day. Enough for my daily 100 miles commute and many road trips I’ve taken.

It is nice to get 48amp from the Tesla wall connector when I’m charging at a hotel which is great since I only need a few hours until I get to 90% but again charge speed isn’t a big issue when I charge at home overnight.
Ah, when the SO and I got the M3 back in 2018, there we were: 200A breaker box in the garage and a single free 120 VAC outlet in the same place. I didn't like the idea of taking the MC in and out of the trunk all the time, figuring that on the day one needed the thing in the field, there the MC would be in the garage.

In terms of cost, well, the Tesla WC was the cheapest solution for a full 48A charge, and having the breaker box Right There was going to be cheap on labor and parts for the install. Figured the grand it would all cost as part of having the car, why not get it installed? Any savings by going to a smaller gauge wire and lower amperage breaker were going to be minimal (remember, the breaker panel is right there), so went for the full monty.

It's worked like a champ ever since. As far as the OP goes: If he had come here for advice on Day 1, we would all probably have suggested the same thing, putting in a 60A circuit to a WC, since the cost would be about the same. But his stuff was all installed when he came by here, so no point in tearing it all down, especially since he's got an SR/SR+ that can't do more than 32A anyway.

About the only thing he's missing in his setup is the convenience that a WC provides: It's hard to beat a box on the wall that has the cable naturally hung around it, when the alternatives are (a) taking the MC in and out of the trunk all the time or (b) buying a second MC just for the garage.

In my opinion he'd probably be marginally better off with a WC setup, but what's done is done.
 
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About the only thing he's missing in his setup is the convenience that a WC provides: It's hard to beat a box on the wall that has the cable naturally hung around it, when the alternatives are (a) taking the MC in and out of the trunk all the time or (b) buying a second MC just for the garage.

In my opinion he'd probably be marginally better off with a WC setup, but what's done is done.
Or just leaving the only one in the garage. There's not really much use for a mobile connector in the car on a day-in, day-out basis (unless you have a plug at work or something). Best to leave it plugged in and just take it with when you go on a trip...and unless you're staying at RV parks, or with friends or relatives, you probably won't use it, even then.
 
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Or just leaving the only one in the garage. There's not really much use for a mobile connector in the car on a day-in, day-out basis (unless you have a plug at work or something). Best to leave it plugged in and just take it with when you go on a trip...and unless you're staying at RV parks, or with friends or relatives, you probably won't use it, even then.
No real argument, but I look upon that MC as, well, an emergency backup. And the thing about emergencies is that they don't send an invite ahead of time and give one fair warning. I keep a first-aid kit in the trunk, a mumbly-type solution for flats likewise, that MC bag with the adapters and all, as well as a seriously heavy-duty extension cord. Not to mention a $RANDOM screwdriver or two. Not to mention glass cleaner and some paper towels.

Back when I was driving an ICE/Hybrid, the kit typically also included a quart of oil, some rags, brake fluid, gasoline drier, and some graphite-based lock lubricant. But that was me having scars on my body from umpteen years of driving an ICE around and getting caught out from time to time. I'm sure everybody has their short list of favorite :).