I picked up an e-tron recently and this is also my experience. The car charges so fast that the trip times are the same. The pricing in my state lowered as well so pricing was also similar.
It's an amazing road trip car!
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Electrify America Strands Motorists
- Thread starter SSonnentag
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I picked up an e-tron recently and this is also my experience. The car charges so fast that the trip times are the same. The pricing in my state lowered as well so pricing was also similar.
It's an amazing road trip car!
manitou820
Member
According to PlugShare, here are Electrify America 350kW chargers in the US versus Tesla V3 Superchargers. Electrify America has done an excellent job rolling things out quick.
Electrify America 350kW locations:
Tesla V3 Locations:
Electrify America 350kW locations:
Tesla V3 Locations:
Pretty easy to do when you don't have a larger already deployed network. I note that you don't show EAs whole network compared to Tesla's network. EA still has a lot of work to do.
ljbad4life
Member
What is also missing is capacity and capacity utilization.
Capacity:
EA has an average of 4 350kw chargers per location (there are some locations that have 10 and some locations only have 2). That means it takes 5 cars at an EA station to overwhelm the station.
Tesla has an average of 9 at it's 250 kw charger locations.
Capacity Utilization:
EA can have a 2 Chevy Bolts charging at 50 kw while a Porsche taycan waits to charge at 350 kw (extreme circumstance). The broad range in charging speeds reduces capacity severely.
Tesla slowest charging car is 120 kw. The difference in speed to 250 kw is much less of a difference.
Results:
EA can claim the crown from fastest charging. It's network is built for speed. It's capacity constrained because of the slower charging evs, and the slower charging evs aren't going to change soon. the mercedes EQS is going to capped at 110 kw, VW id4 is capped at 124 kw andthe Nissan airya is capped at 135kw and the bmw i4 is capped at 150 kw. Those are all new EVs. That's a lot of power delivery going to waste that could increase capacity. None of this is EA's fault, but is the reality of the EV Market
Tesla supercharger network is built for speed and capacity in a good balance. Tesla from 8 years ago can charge at 120kw, all new tesla's are over 200 kw.
I hate to read that people are getting stranded by EA. I think it's the closest thing to Tesla supercharging network in quality of stations and locations of those stations. EVs can't be known for not being able to charge, it'll stop anyone from buying one, now that range is in the acceptable level.
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manitou820
Member
There is no doubt Tesla has way more locations and number of charging stalls. I'm just trying to point out the EA is growing quick and starting off with 350kW chargers. They have accomplished a lot in 18 months. I'm also a bit surprised how slow Tesla has been to upgrade to V3 superchargers.
A couple of things to point out in regards to Tesla superchargers. When two cars are charging from a shared stall, the power gets cut dramatically. Not the case with EA. Also, my personal experience with charging my Model X is I rarely see the high charging speeds claimed by Tesla. Our's is a late 2018 so it doesn't have the Raven battery. But again, compared to our E-tron and Taycan, it's extremely slow. Also you mentioned Tesla's slowest charging rate is 120kW, but the problem is Tesla's ramp down so quickly that they are charging in the 50-80kW range once the get above 60-70% versus the E-tron for example charging at 150kW all the way to 80% and above 100kW to 90%. So there are times which older Teslas or the Model S and X can have a big impact on turnover. Kind of like a slower charging Bolt which takes about an hour to fully charge.
I've had great success with the EA chargers in Colorado. I understand EA has had issues rolling things out, but my personal experience has been great. Also no lines or waits to speak of. Now granted as more and more EV's by other brands get released this will become a big problem at EA.
When we bought our E-tron we planned on it being our "around town" EV and the Model X as our road trip EV. But based on our experience charging it's changed. We now tend to use the E-tron as our preferred road trip car.
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That would be version 2. V3 Superchargers don't have the same power sharing.
manitou820
Member
And good luck trying to use EA to make it to the Sound of Silence rally in Custer, SD!
I'll take it any day, but I understand that is a personal preference. The ride is much more comfortable.
It's a great thing that non-Tesla road trips are now viable.
It's a great thing that non-Tesla road trips are now viable.
ljbad4life
Member
You've done a great job of explaining why EA is a good network. It is a good one. As another posted pointed out v3 super chargers don't share. Tesla doesn't have to rush to change everything over to V3, they can strategically pick optimized locations. My concern for EA is what happens when those billions runs out and they need to turn a profit while maintaining those stations with nothing else but electricity to sell. Will they become blink and let their network go to crap or become Evgo and charge an insane amount of money to charge.
Your Model X charges faster than any 3 year old EV. I have a Model 3. I have hit 248 kw multiple times. I don't taper below 120 kw until about 70%. I charge faster than any car on the market except for the Taycan. All the new Model S and X's charge at 220kw. The Model Y charges just as fast as mine. There are more Model 3's on the road than Model s and x combined. With Model Y added into it, the likely hood of a running into a model s/x that's capped at 120kw is smaller than most people think.
manitou820
Member
I agree on the EA comment. I am concerned about the future of EA. Hopefully with enough demand (and possibly support from other automakers) they will be able to survive. I will add that Chargepoint seems to do quite well and I've had success using their chargers recently. Most of the time they use rates set by the local utility which hasn't been very expensive. They also have new 125kW chargers coming out which are decent. We use one regularly in Salida, CO and it costs about $14 to add 50%. Not bad for an occasional road trip.
I still don't fully agree with the charging speeds relative to the E-tron and Taycan (particularly with the Model S and X) but we will just have to disagree.
Honestly the reason I've been a bit defensive regarding EA is there is such much false information regarding other EV's and charging networks. Like I said, when I bought my E-tron I assumed it would suck as a road trip vehicle and there wouldn't be a network like Tesla. To my surprise it turns out to be nearly as good if not better than my Model X in my situation. I also gets tons of ignorant questions or comments regarding my E-tron or my newly acquired Taycan. As an example my brother-in-law who recently purchased a Model S was surprised when we showed up in our E-tron. He didn't realize there was other fast chargers out there besides Tesla.
Tesla is absolutely the leader and benchmark in the EV industry. But like I said, between the E-tron, Taycan and a lot of new EVs coming out, combined with networks like Electrify America and Chargepoint, they are catching up relatively quick, and for the most part they are way better than people give them credit. Go look at Plugshare. Just take a look at all the CCS chargers under construction. They are going in just about everywhere.
I'm just happy other automakers are getting serious about EV's and there are more and more charging options everyday. I support Tesla 100%, but ultimately I just want EV's to replace all ICE vehicles and that's going to take everyone getting on board. Tesla can't do it alone.
That's great now see if you can find a graph that compares at least 120 kilowatts Chargers Super Chargers versus Electrify America. You've cherry-picked your statistics to make it look as though Electrify America actually has a way better charging Network. I don't think they do. And then there's the problem of how a significant fraction of their Chargers don't work and are often times dead. While that does happen at superchargers it's much rarer and there is more redundancy in the supercharger Network.
And it's also important to emphasize that power-sharing or current limiting is only an issue when version 2 supercharger stations show greater than 50% occupancy and you're unlucky enough to be sharing with somebody who hasn't hit the tapering part of the power curve yet. Those are unusual contingencies in our experience. We've driven cross-country a dozen times between our two cars and we've rarely run into the problem of power sharing. We do occasionally find some kind of strange current limit on a particular stall and then we've had the switch to other stalls. That's a legitimate concern actually that some of the time the superchargers won't hit their rated output. But if you're comparing head-to-head Electrify America compared to supercharging it's still not that close frankly.
manitou820
Member
I was comparing Tesla V3 versus EA 350kW stations. That is all. I'm pretty sure everyone on here is aware of Tesla's supercharger network coverage.
Here is their latest if that makes you feel better.
I don't think we're saying anything except that the e-tron (and Taycan) are viable road trip vehicles. I have also received unexpected contempt from Tesla owner friends, as well as plenty online. You can't read an e-tron review without reading étron in the comments.
With charging, the devil is in the details. EA is tricky to use, less reliable, and has fewer stalls per location but they deliver a lot of power. Since CCS is the open standard, you also find an excess of locations within cities. It is still a YMMV situation, but infrastructure development has been quite rapid.
It will be interesting to see what happens when other vehicles like the ID4, Mach-E, Rivian, etc. come out, since they are all CCS.
With charging, the devil is in the details. EA is tricky to use, less reliable, and has fewer stalls per location but they deliver a lot of power. Since CCS is the open standard, you also find an excess of locations within cities. It is still a YMMV situation, but infrastructure development has been quite rapid.
It will be interesting to see what happens when other vehicles like the ID4, Mach-E, Rivian, etc. come out, since they are all CCS.
I wish Bjorn had completed his 1,000km challenge with the Taycan, as it is a really good metric for comparing long distance capability, and he hasn't had a chance to do it in one yet.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
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