Elon "About to end range anxiety"

[brianman]

I've also personally thought, for a while now, that the cruise control should already be doing this. On long trips I tend not to use the CC and try to manually keep my usage around 0 because it's too aggressive with the braking and acceleration.

Efficiency Miser Mode

 

[DriverOne]

Twin chargers were $1500, now they are $2000. That's not really cheaper (unless you did not buy them with the car originally)

Sorry, I hadn't realized that. I can't see anywhere to configure the twin chargers with a new car, now. I was thinking only of the price that dropped from $3600 to $2000; anyway you have dispelled my idea.

 

[Saghost]

If you are interested in data I have collected for the Energi regarding motor efficiency, see the following and subsequent posts.

OBD II Data for HVB - Page 5 - Batteries & Charging - Ford Fusion Energi Forum

That was interesting (if not terribly related to the topic at hand.) I'm a little puzzled, though - the measurements in the last post appear to show 89% efficiency in the heart of the curve - far higher than your were quoting in the first post and very comparable to GM's posted numbers.

I'm also surprised at how much more efficient the regeneration side is - my initial assumption had been that the efficiency would be similar in both directions.

 

[brianman]

people ... in the left lane of I5 going 52mph.

Unless the other lanes don't exist (construction) or are literally on fire, this is pretty much always wrong.

 

[dirkhh]

Sorry, I hadn't realized that. I can't see anywhere to configure the twin chargers with a new car, now. I was thinking only of the price that dropped from $3600 to $2000; anyway you have dispelled my idea.

Correct - at the same time the "after the fact" install dropped from $3600 to $2000 the pre-installed version at ordering time went away (and that used to be $1500).

 

[Carl Leermakers]

Agreed. This is a non-trivial exercise, and in trying to avoid range anxiety, I find myself considering SpC stops every 120 miles or so, which is horribly inefficient in terms of number of stops and probably SOC on arrival.

FWIW: here's an Excel spreadsheet (created by Merijn from the Belgo-Dutch sub-forum) which calculates the "ideal speed between Superchargers". Just mention the typical range you have before starting a charge, the range you want to keep as a buffer at destination, and the distance between both Superchargers. "Vitesse optimale" (yes, the thing is in French) then shows you ideal speed to have the shortest travel time (charging plus travel). Not intended as a navigation tool, but just an interesting exercise : View attachment 74310

More on topic: would be seriously underwhelming imho if the press conference of tomorrow was only about bringing Navigation up to the level of a 199$ TomTom device. Surely Elon has more in his magical hat to disclose!

 

[dirkhh]

Unless the other lanes don't exist (construction) or are literally on fire, this is pretty much always wrong.

or when the speed limit is well below 45 (in which case it's wrong for other reasons)

 

[brianman]

Having Tesla doesn't mean you have to drive like a crazy and I think mostly people use Tesla in city where speed 40 mph quite enough
in my opinion most Tesla drivers will like having option to choose "ECO mode" with low dynamic (10 sec 0-60 mph) but with doubled range (600 miles)
And plus you always can go back to "INSANE mode" and punish everyone.

I suspect Dirk was assuming that if you're in an area where 40mph is reasonable, you're in a city and when you're in a city (rather than travelling between cities) range anxiety is pretty much a non-issue already for Model S.

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you don't want regen off, you just want the ability to glide more.
As a hypermiler you want to be able to easily control the car between these states

1. propulsion (energy flow from the battery to the motor to the wheels)
2. gliding (neutral) which is better than
3. regen (energy flow from the wheels to the motor to the battery) which is better than
4. regen + friction brakes which is better than
5. friction brakes only

It isn't that we want to turn off the regen, we just want to reserve regen for braking and use neutral more without changing the gear selection. We want the car to be smart enough to do it for us or we want the controls designed well enough that we can get it into a neutral energy flow without fighting the system wanting to regen when we don't want it to and we don't want the system disabling regen when we want it on.

(I added the number to the quote.)
I hesitated to chime in on the other thread (regen on the brake pedal) but this quote is good context...
For Model S, #1 is awesome, #2 is difficult, #3 is nice, #4 is good but no better than #3, and #5 is solid. I'd like to see #2 become easier.

As for the "regen on the brake pedal" (#4), I think the argument that some have been making is that #4 can't be stronger regen than #3 "because it's already at the limit". If it's "at the limit" from a physics standpoint (can't actually regen more), then there's nothing to improve. If, OTOH, if regen's "at the limit" because Tesla is trying to protect against degradation when you "lift accelerator" (#3) I don't think that necessarily holds true for "press brake" (#4). As an example, if the "regen limiter" is absent from the UI and "full lift" is regenning 15 kW then either (A) pressing the brake should potentially offer up to 45 kW more regen braking or (B) they should consider an "available regen" line that shows the driver what regen is available if/when adding the brake pedal and allow that amount for #4. Some might argue that the "available regen" limit would match exactly what the UI shows when the accelerator pedal is lifted; if that's the case, then I'd like to see that AR line when I *haven't* lifted as well.

- - - Updated - - -

Since I am planning a trip from Pittsburgh down to Charlotte this weekend, which spans something like nine possible superchargers, at which I must stop at a minimum of five or six, I have been thinking how much I would *love* a feature that would optimally route me through these superchargers, minimizing my overall drive time, and simply informing me what maximum/cruise speed I should set to make the next leg. As you say, I wouldn't need TACC for that at all. And it would DEFINITELY reduce the range anxiety I am having as I plan my SpC stops using EVTripPlanner.

And unfortunately I will be on the road by the time the press conference starts, and wouldn't be able to download any new software even if it was instantaneously pushed!

I've been wanting multi-waypoint trips in the Tesla Nav for a while. Even that (where I manually type in the supercharger stops) would be a nice step forward. Adding your other stuff would be a nice bonus of course.

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or when the speed limit is well below 45 (in which case it's wrong for other reasons)

The limit is below 45mph on I-5 without construction? Where?

 

[JakeP]

FWIW: here's an Excel spreadsheet (created by Merijn from the Belgo-Dutch sub-forum) which calculates the "ideal speed between Superchargers". Just mention the typical range you have before starting a charge, the range you want to keep as a buffer at destination, and the distance between both Superchargers. "Vitesse optimale" (yes, the thing is in French) then shows you ideal speed to have the shortest travel time (charging plus travel). Not intended as a navigation tool, but just an interesting exercise : View attachment 74310

More on topic: would be seriously underwhelming imho if the press conference of tomorrow was only about bringing Navigation up to the level of a 199$ TomTom device. Surely Elon has more in his magical hat to disclose!

Thanks Carl, I like this spreadsheet! It illustrates how easily this could be implemented as a new feature, tied into cruise control and navigation, incorporating other factors such as elevation and ambient temperature.

 

[dirkhh]

The limit is below 45mph on I-5 without construction? Where?

I thought it was 40 in the mountains right by the OR/CA border... but now that I think about it, I'm no longer 100% sure if this was because of construction or if it was always that low. There are a few very nasty turns... so I'd soften this to "IIRC, there are a couple of stretches where 52 would be going way too fast".
(and doing some googling it appears I'm wrong... I can't find any confirmation that the official speed limit around Siskiyou pass drops below 50, so it must have been construction the last two times I went through there...)

 

[brianman]

I thought it was 40 in the mountains right by the OR/CA border... but now that I think about it, I'm no longer 100% sure if this was because of construction or if it was always that low. There are a few very nasty turns... so I'd soften this to "IIRC, there are a couple of stretches where 52 would be going way too fast".
(and doing some googling it appears I'm wrong... I can't find any confirmation that the official speed limit around Siskiyou pass drops below 50, so it must have been construction the last two times I went through there...)

No worries. I've been thru that border several times (6+) and it seems like there's always construction for at least 10 miles of the trip somewhere.

 

[gavine]

Regarding regen-off option, if they offer that, new owners will turn it off without giving it a chance to get accustomed to and then complain that they aren't getting the advertised efficiency.

 

[RobStark]

Regarding regen-off option, if they offer that, new owners will turn it off without giving it a chance to get accustomed to and then complain that they aren't getting the advertised efficiency.

Maybe give option for regen-off but imperceptibly turn it on over a year. Bit by bit the driver becomes accustomed to full regen without realizing it.

 

[eloder]

Regarding regen-off option, if they offer that, new owners will turn it off without giving it a chance to get accustomed to and then complain that they aren't getting the advertised efficiency.

It depends on the situation, though. Regen is not always more efficient.

I imagine at some point there will be a software update for it. Automatic by default (regen in city, no regen on highway), but user customizable to be always-on, always-off, or set behavior such as regen on the brake pedal only.

The smart electric drive has paddle shifters that set regen (off, moderate, aggressive), rather than change gears. It's a very simple and elegant solution for hypermiling in an EV and controlling it. I don't think Tesla will let the smart EV outclass it on regen customization forever

 

[Hometheatremaven]

Will I "end range anxiety" with my no(n) tech package Model S?

Background: Without the tech package, my S has the "Maps" icon instead of the "Nav" icon.
I can ask voice control to find an address, and it can locate it on the map. But without the tech package, I have no turn-by-turn directions.
And because my Tesla doesn't know my route, I have no Energy Prediction graphs etc.

So I wonder if Elon's announcement tomorrow will really end range anxiety for non tech package Model Ss. In order to do that, it seems Tesla will have to change our Map function to Nav function.
I also wonder if we will get some kind of watered down Nav, like no turn-by-turn.

Interested to hear others thoughts, although I guess we'll find out tomorrow.

 

[yobigd20]

Range anxiety will end when the car's power levels are over 9000

 

[RadicalIgnorant]

Wild guess. Tesla is to enable pay as you go supercharging. For everyone. For every car which is able to use such currents. And is expannding Superchhargers dramatically. And it's partnering with ***.
All fleet. Makes economical sense. In few years when others will join EV revolution they will all pay Tesla. And rhere is no range anexiety if supercharger is "on every corner".
Btw. By pay as you go I mean model of pre paid phones, so no waiting for long transaction.

 

[dirkhh]

There's lots of speculation about what happens to non-tech package cars in the 900+ post thread on the announcement... maybe this should be merged in there as well?

 

[deonb]

Wild guess. Tesla is to enable pay as you go supercharging. For everyone. For every car which is able to use such currents. And is expannding Superchhargers dramatically. And it's partnering with ***.
All fleet. Makes economical sense. In few years when others will join EV revolution they will all pay Tesla. And rhere is no range anexiety if supercharger is "on every corner".
Btw. By pay as you go I mean model of pre paid phones, so no waiting for long transaction.

You mean pre-pay, like in you pay some amount of money up front and then you can use Supercharging thereafter?

Or inviting other companies, let's hypothetically say "Mercedes Benz", to join as well, under the same pre-paid agreement?

I'm surprised Elon hasn't thought of that already...

 

[Forty Creek]

One more night until we know the actual answer. My own guess is that it will be an OTA update that effects multiple aspects of the car: Nav and routing, energy forecast accuracy, tweaked regen, maybe faster charging and possibly a little more range. Not all cars need benefit from all improvements for Elon's tweet to hold true, so long as all cars improve from at least one of the changes. I also think that one if not all of the improvements could be spun in a way that will grab the attention of current non-owners. We owners are happily spoiled by our experience with the Model S and some may well be disappointed after the announcement. Probably shouldn't be though.