Elon or Barra, Who is the Better Engineer?

[kpanda17]

Clearly we can see the legacy vehicle companies, not owned by the Chinese, Geely/Volvo/Polestar, who totally copied Tesla in China or Hyundai/Kia/Gene who did partial coping, are admitting too much design waste, too high design costs, no control of supply chain, in their own EV attempts. Ford Farley is very outspoken about these items.

With this, I feel Elon is rhe better engineer than Barra/GM CEO. This is surprising as she is with GM, as an engineer working up through the ranks, for decades. Elon thinks engineer first then business. Barra, thinks business first than engineering.

The result is the Tesla ecosystem, engineering designs, verticals integration, apps, AP/EAP/FSD, etc are far superior in total that any other vehicle manufacturer.

Your thoughts

 

[The Lorax]

While I'm not an engineer and so am in no position to judge anyone's engineering abilities, I think there is some merit to the idea that it's their respective approaches to the work which sets them apart. GM is a large company with a 'follow the rules' culture where you excel by doing things that are expected of you. Tesla on the other hand has had a 'break the rules' culture where you learn through your mistakes. Tesla's approach will therefore lend itself to more and faster innovation and therefore the perception that they have better underlying abilities.

 

[Big Dog]

My thoughts: it's a silly question.

Elon started from scratch, redesigned a circle. The legacy automakers cannot; the legacies starts with a billion dollars worth of square-making facilities and have to turn them into producing circles, all the while remaining profitable. As an example, GM is pumping $600m more into its ICE truck plant (supposedly) so it can subsidize EV's. Spending millions to improve ICE production is not gonna much move the needle on EV development.

GM to invest $632 million to produce next-generation pickups in Indiana

The investment is GM’s third such announcement in the past week involving its next-generation large trucks and SUVs.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[legendsk]

Clearly we can see the legacy vehicle companies, not owned by the Chinese, Geely/Volvo/Polestar, who totally copied Tesla in China or Hyundai/Kia/Gene who did partial coping, are admitting too much design waste, too high design costs, no control of supply chain, in their own EV attempts. Ford Farley is very outspoken about these items.

With this, I feel Elon is rhe better engineer than Barra/GM CEO. This is surprising as she is with GM, as an engineer working up through the ranks, for decades. Elon thinks engineer first then business. Barra, thinks business first than engineering.

The result is the Tesla ecosystem, engineering designs, verticals integration, apps, AP/EAP/FSD, etc are far superior in total that any other vehicle manufacturer.

Your thoughts

Big Dog (above) nailed it - yes it's a silly question. The stereotype engineer is focused on Truth, Problem Solving, and has little regard for people's feelings or other collateral damage - and as an engineer I can assure that is not an accident, "it's true, it's true", as Madalyn Khan would say. So yeah, they are both engineers, Mary because she toughed her way through college to get an engineering degree and Elon because he is incredibly smart and has studied lots of subjects and become an expert on all of them.

However, socially Elon is likely somewhere on the Autistic spectrum, (it really isn't much of a handicap), which puts him squarely in the middle of the stereotype image of an engineer.

Mary is a very consummate politician, successful, and likely very smart - she just doesn't fit the stereotype image of an engineer, because politicians understand that to get what they want, they must tell people what they want to hear, not necessarily the truth.

Wikipedia has really nice pages on both people and reading through those, you can see all this like it was written in big letters on a blackboard. So the original question is sort of like asking, "which is the better bicycle, an apple or an orange?".

 

[CapeOne]

Your thoughts

Tesla’s focus has always been on just EVs while GM has to be focusing not only on EVs but also ICE vehicles where most of their business (and most sales in the car market) still come from. GM can't just give up on their ICE business while they wait for EV sales to reach necessary levels. For one reason or another, many GM customers simply aren't ready for an EV yet and GM wants/needs to meet those ICE customers' needs for a while.

 

[terranx]

Considering Barra is in fact an engineer while Musk is not, I would argue the former is the better engineer.

Who's the better CEO is another matter. Musk probably was until he let his politics warp his mind.

 

[watsongrg]

What we need today are Patriots.
Elon has proven he is a Patriot. Just like President Trump.
And that truth flips the fan-boy’s SH!t every time..

 

[E90alex]

Considering Barra is in fact an engineer while Musk is not, I would argue the former is the better engineer.

Who's the better CEO is another matter. Musk probably was until he let his politics warp his mind.

This. Musk is not an engineer because he does not have any degrees in engineering. Not anyone can just call themself an engineer. Just like people can’t call themselves doctors unless they have a doctorate.

He might be a good idea/business man that hires the right engineers to execute his visions, but he himself is not an engineer.

 

[CyberGus]

Musk is not an engineer because he does not have any degrees in engineering. Not anyone can just call themself an engineer. Just like people can’t call themselves doctors unless they have a doctorate.

I don't have a doctorate, but I'm a better doctor than Mengele

 

[father_of_6]

This. Musk is not an engineer because he does not have any degrees in engineering. Not anyone can just call themself an engineer. Just like people can’t call themselves doctors unless they have a doctorate.

He might be a good idea/business man that hires the right engineers to execute his visions, but he himself is not an engineer.

@E90alex - I've read many of your posts and respect your opinion, however this is total crap

You're saying that the only way to understand engineering principles is if you learn them from a for-profit college institution. That's garbage.

I've been writing software since age 12 and have a GED. I surpass every coworker I meet in both skill and productivity. I've met many people with engineering degrees that are mediocre at best at what they do. Getting a degree does not equate to being great at what you do... it just means you were able to put the work in to see it through.

I couldn't disagree more. When I hear Elon speak, it's very clear that I'm hearing an engineer. Mary Barra sound much more like a politician. I don't mean to imply that she's not capable of understanding complexity, but I do get a strong sense that Elon gives himself over to deep complexity more than she does.

Mary Barra has devoted herself to business acumen for a long time. I bet her complex engineering skills (if she ever had any) have gotten dull.

 

[E90alex]

You're saying that the only way to understand engineering principles is if you learn them from a for-profit college institution. That's garbage.

That’s not what I said.

You don’t need an engineering degree to understand engineering principles, nor does having an engineering degree mean you understand engineering principles better than someone without said degree.

But specifically the title of “engineer” in many fields can only be used by someone after earning a degree in engineering in that field (amongst other tests/certifications/licensures). It’s legally defined by states what is required to be professionally considered an engineer.

 

[kpanda17]

My point of this thread was to say
Elon thinks as an engineer, problem, fix, design, execution, use, measure, evolve, make better

We hear about new drive trains, heat pump, steering by wire, etc
Even if you don’t feel Elon drives those efforts it’s because an engineer mindset runs throughout Tesla

Farley is struggling with engineering at Ford
He does not profess to be an engineer

Barra is an engineer that has been managing for so long and forgot an engineering mindset or never was

But the post is, who is a better engineer
Elon is the answer

 

[jabloomf1230]

Elon is the better engineer. I suspect that he's secretly directing the rebuild of the destroyed I95 bridge near Philadelphia, given the timeframe quoted by the PA governor:

Biden takes helicopter tour of I-95; Shapiro says it will re-open within two weeks

“I’ve directed my team...to move heaven and earth to get this done as soon as humanly possible,” Biden said.

whyy.org

 

[Patrick66]

My point of this thread was to say
Elon thinks as an engineer, problem, fix, design, execution, use, measure, evolve, make better

Actually, in that context Mary is a better engineer; engineers refine while artists reinvent. "First Principles" is about shunning what you [think you] know and looking at the problem from a fresh perspective several levels removed from the stated problem.

 

[kpanda17]

In my education, I learned about the legacy auto makers and the “just in time manufacturing” supply chain from suppliers. EVs are high tech and integrations from third parties does not work. Farley even talks about Fords difficulty of the bid and integration process they are having with components in their EVs.
Elon has driven and continues to drive vertical integration. Barra is now only following Tesla with this idea.
Let’s agree to disagree, I feel Elon is the better engineer.

 

[legendsk]

That’s not what I said.

You don’t need an engineering degree to understand engineering principles, nor does having an engineering degree mean you understand engineering principles better than someone without said degree.

But specifically the title of “engineer” in many fields can only be used by someone after earning a degree in engineering in that field (amongst other tests/certifications/licensures). It’s legally defined by states what is required to be professionally considered an engineer.

Both of those statements are spot on.

 

[Zythryn]

If you judge engineering prowess by what their respective companies have done then Elon is the better ‘engineer’.
After all, one lands rockets, the other doesn’t

 

[CyberGus]

Elon wins if the question is "who is doing a better job leading their company".

But Elon can't even play the "who's a better engineer" game, since he's a "not an engineer" engineer (literally).

I rate this thread as a "trick question"

 

[father_of_6]

I think we're arguing semantics now.

Engineer is define as:
a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or public works.

It may be a protected title in some areas of the world, but that has no bearing on someone's abilities.

Elon is the better engineer.

 

[terranx]

I think we're arguing semantics now.

Engineer is define as:
a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or public works.

It may be a protected title in some areas of the world, but that has no bearing on someone's abilities.

Elon is the better engineer.

Has Elon done literally any of that? He hires the right people to do it, but I doubt he can design much himself. Because he’s never had any training in engineering.