Elon says AWD and Perf orders start at end of next week!

[MXWing]

Speaking of that- haven't seen the configurator screen shots make ANY mention of ANY upgrades at all to brakes or suspension for the P model... which is surprising if he's shooting at the BMW M3...

given the motors are supposedly the same in the P and non-P AWD Model 3s (other than the best sigmas and longer burn testing) that suggests you're basically paying $20,000 for what, just bigger inverters or something to support higher discharge?

For the 710th MILLIONETH time which happens to coincides with Tesla’s Q1 net loss (710 million dollars) it has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with cogs (cost of goods) for the performance options.

It has everything to do with:

1.) Tesla needs to make money
2.) Suppy and demand

You are paying 20,000 with the hope and idea Tesla is still around to make good on the warranty for the Model 3 you are buying.

 

[chickensworth]

For the 710th MILLIONETH time which happens to coincides with Tesla’s Q1 net loss it has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with cogs (cost of goods) for the performance options.

1.) Tesla needs to make money
2.) Suppy and demand

You are paying 20,000 with the hope and idea Tesla is still around to make good on the warranty for the Model 3 you are buying.

yeah... I don’t even need a car. I just want to subsidize Tesla’s business. This guy...

 

[xav-]

Some like me got ridiculed for suggesting that the Performance model 3 was going to be a BMW M3 killer.

Apologies accepted.

 

[Gen3Joe]

Correct:.

I don't ever plan on going to the track. I just want to smile at the guy next to me at the light.....knowing he doesn't have a chance.......lol


For goodness sake.....The model s is a SEDAN and its hilarious seeing a 4 door luxury vehicle blowing away porsches and such on a drag strip without a burnout or anything.
I watch those videos over and over and over on youtube. Its hilarious.

This right here is why I'm a little disappointed in the 3.5 0-60 time. The 3 wouldn't stand a chance against a 911 turbo, Chevrolet Corvette or anything else that is considered quick on the drag strip. A BMW M3 might even take it in the quarter which to me is just sad.

 

[Trips]

This right here is why I'm a little disappointed in the 3.5 0-60 time. The 3 wouldn't stand a chance against a 911 turbo, Chevrolet Corvette or anything else that is considered quick on the drag strip. A BMW M3 might even take it in the quarter which to me is just sad.

I think the 0-60 is much slower then what the actual will be. I would blame the original performance owners figured out that over time they were being limited and sued. Tesla is not being to make that mistake again and reports slower times and no longer has exact battery sizes as that varies.

 

[aronth5]

A stock BMW M4 with a good driver will lap Laguna Seca in 1:39.69. The fastest time I can find for a Model S is 1:52.43. You have to admit it’s a bold claim to say the Model 3 will be faster than a BMW M3?

Very interesting thread from mattcrowley which certainly shows some real promise for Model 3 at the track compared to the Model S especially with proper brakes, AWD and the performance package. I think is a key reason why Elon is very confident in this statements.

Model 3 Track Day: Laguna Seca

Beautiful day here at Laguna Seca!
View attachment 284282
The first session of the day had NO battery power limitations! Nine laps without slowing down! Yes!

However, brakes are toasted...literally cooked. No brakes left after the 4th lap. Going into turn 2 at 103.9 MPH without brakes...not ideal. Here is a picture of the front left rotor and pad... nothing remaining on the pad.
View attachment 284305

Here is a picture of the brake dust after I pulled into the paddock garage after nine laps.
View attachment 284283

The brake overflow reservoir looks to be pretty empty.
View attachment 284287

Started with 229 miles (369 km) of range before leaving the paddock garage for the first session on the track. After nine laps I parked it with 94 miles (151 km). Used 135 miles (217 km) in nine laps.

Best lap was 1:57.50. Track was still very cold and wet in some places. Turn 3 had a small river going across the track and the car was sideways every time in turn 3. The track had rain and hail yesterday (Sat. March 3) at the track, so the 40°F (4°C) degree temperature in the morning today didn't do much to dry the track.

The car hadled great on the first 3 laps. If the brakes held up...I think I could have easily broken 1:55 per lap...if not 1:50. The car was very balanced through turn 9 and turn 10. The Corkscrew was a blast! Even turn 6, which has a slight dip at the apex, was a lot of fun and the car handled it very well.

The handling was very good with the Unplugged Performance springs. Very happy with the response in entry and heavy braking (when the brakes worked the first few laps).

Drove to the Tesla store, in Monterey, to 'top off' the battery. Talked to a few people here about the Model 3. Biased group, but people are very happy with seeing the Model 3 in person.
View attachment 284300

I think I need to call it a day, since the brakes are gone. I will look into performance brakes/rotors and also performance brake fluid (might have cooked the brake fluid as well).

Even though I only had 9 laps, cooked the brakes, and I am done early...I had a blast. This car is going to be fun to mod and tune the suspension, wheels, and tires.

Let me know if you have other questions. I didn't get a lot of data. I do have some GoPro footage I need to edit, so maybe share that later.

 

[ken830]

How can some non-owners already able to configure AWD/Performance before day-1 owners?

 

[xav-]

This right here is why I'm a little disappointed in the 3.5 0-60 time. The 3 wouldn't stand a chance against a 911 turbo, Chevrolet Corvette or anything else that is considered quick on the drag strip. A BMW M3 might even take it in the quarter which to me is just sad.

I agree I was hoping for a little better. Still glad that gas guzzlers like the C class AMG will soon be history.

$200k 911 turbo is unfair as a comparison IMO

I am not sure a corvette would beat it! Unless the driver is very skilled maybe (and would a very skilled racer buy a corvette?)

 

[xav-]

I suggest Elon Musk release a fake exhaust system to make the gas guzzlers lovers happy...

With some nice speakers at the very end.. then you can select V10 sound, V8 or whatever.

Better be careful though because BMW could easily file a lawsuit for patent violation

 

[Dutchie]

This right here is why I'm a little disappointed in the 3.5 0-60 time. The 3 wouldn't stand a chance against a 911 turbo, Chevrolet Corvette or anything else that is considered quick on the drag strip. A BMW M3 might even take it in the quarter which to me is just sad.

The Porsche 911 Turbo is a $170K+ car and a Corvette has a 0-60 in 3.7 seconds which his slower than M3..

 

[Garlan Garner]

They are in competition with each other.

All you have to do is to look at existing Model S owner. It's filled with people that bought this car because of a lack of other options. I bought it despite not wanting a space ship sized car.

So ANY other option IS competition.

The Model 3 is the ONLY competition for the Model S.

So Tesla has to differentiate the 3 in some significant way from the S. Even when that differentiation is something as common as a heated steering wheel. I can get a heated steering wheel in a Jeep Wrangler, but not in a 3.

They are also using a different tactic in differentiation, and that is time. As a Model S owner I was able to order a Model 3 just months after placing a reservation. It wasn't just a customer appreciation thing, but a way to force new buyers to still strongly consider the S. This would buy Tesla time to improve the S. As long as the 3 isn't in high production numbers then they have time to spruce up the S.

In a few years the S versus the 3 is going to be like the BMW 3 versus the BMW 7 series, but Tesla isn't there yet.

We have to agree to disagree.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Yes but they also include the hardware in every vehicle. They take a loss for those that don’t purchase the software

I don't believe they take a loss on ANY vehicle. Of course the profit margin is smaller....which is why I believe they didn't make the $35k version first. They aren't going to lose money on the 35k version.....they just won't make as much. If I'm not mistaken the profit margin is 20%.

 

[Garlan Garner]

This right here is why I'm a little disappointed in the 3.5 0-60 time. The 3 wouldn't stand a chance against a 911 turbo, Chevrolet Corvette or anything else that is considered quick on the drag strip. A BMW M3 might even take it in the quarter which to me is just sad.

The problem with this discussion is that all of those cars are not in the same class as the Model 3. As Elon so eloquently stated last night......"The model 3 will out perform ANYTHING in its class".

 

[dhanson865]

Quick summary ... Tesla Model 3 - Wikipedia

View attachment 302417

I edited that table since the naming of the columns was so poor and they missed a major config that will come soon enough

 

[Knightshade]

Who said they were the same? Maybe they are different but poorly performing performance motors can also be used in the RWD cars and are software limited?

I mean- Elon Musk said it.

AC induction front & switched reluctance, partial permanent magnet rear. Silicon Carbide inverters in both. Performance drive units are lot sorted for highest sigma output & get double the burn-in.

Same motors in all AWD Model 3s other than the P ones being sorted for highest sigma and getting twice the burn in.

If they weren't the same motor in the first place "sorting" would make 0 sense there.

It's similar to how some video card makers "bin" their parts to be able to sell the overclocked version of what is the same basic chip.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Anyone know Tesla's model 3 performance configuration process?

Anyone know for sure.......without speculation?

 

[Garlan Garner]

How can some non-owners already able to configure AWD/Performance before day-1 owners?

Yeah....what is Tesla doing? How are they rolling this out? This is really frustrating not knowing if there is something else I need to do in order to configure.

 

[Gen3Joe]

Speaking of that- haven't seen the configurator screen shots make ANY mention of ANY upgrades at all to brakes or suspension for the P model... which is surprising if he's shooting at the BMW M3...

given the motors are supposedly the same in the P and non-P AWD Model 3s (other than the best sigmas and longer burn testing) that suggests you're basically paying $20,000 for what, just bigger inverters or something to support higher discharge?

Completely agree with your sentiment here. I will wait and see what the future brings the performance Model 3

 

[ccutrer]

I mean- Elon Musk said it.



Same motors in all AWD Model 3s other than the P ones being sorted for highest sigma and getting twice the burn in.

If they weren't the same motor in the first place "sorting" would make 0 sense there.

It's similar to how some video card makers "bin" their parts to be able to sell the overclocked version of what is the same basic chip.

Adding additional implied words to get to your interpretation (correct me if this is not how you're reading it):

AC induction front & switched reluctance, partial permanent magnet rear [for both AWD and performance]. Silicon Carbide inverters in both [front and rear motors, of both AWD and performance]. Performance drive units are [distinguished from regular AWD motors by] lot sort[ing] for highest sigma output & get double the burn-in.

After a third reading, I think that's what I'm getting, too. My initial reading was that he was only referring to performance motors, and that the lot sorting applied to using the not-best motors for unknown uses - RWD or Semi?

 

[ccutrer]

Yeah....what is Tesla doing? How are they rolling this out? This is really frustrating not knowing if there is something else I need to do in order to configure.

My supposition is that many or all of people that currently have invites will have Performance show up in the design studio (soon). It seemed to roll out for a few minutes this afternoon (I saw it, but took too long humming and hawing on what I wanted), but then they rolled it back. You got an error if you configured AWD or performance when you went to submit the order, unless you happened to hit a server that had the code to allow it.