Elon Tweet: No 'significantly new consumer-facing technology' in Model 3

[AustinPowers]

Tesla and Elon want to advance the production of the EV.

Now they have over 400K+ people that agree.

Would be interesting to know how many of those 400K+ remain after production actually starts.

This is why I am frustrated that Elon's comment or reasoning as to why they are not doing it. It is not new, nor will it affect how fast they can produce the vehicle.

This is what is frustrating to me, Elon states they are "minimizing configuration complexity." This is not their first rodeo, delaying dual motors is stupid. It would not decrease their production efficiency by any real margin as they have been installing these on the S and X for some time now. Bogus reasoning in my opinion.

Absolutely!

So little faith! Do you really think the company that has brought us all these amazing advances in the last 5 years is going to let you down. The Model 3 will be awesome and it will take some time to bring all its features to light.... just like the Model S (And Model X to some extent. it took over a year to release the 5-seater). But if you really feel like Tesla is not going to bring another awesome car to market after two home runs, they maybe the Ampera is your car.

I have showed faith in Tesla even when no one else over here would have. I have been a proponent of their cause for years. I am still a reservation holder because I have nearly endless optimism and hope that I might still be pleasantly surprised.

BUT, I really think that Tesla is in deeper trouble than they want to admit. Talk about "streamlining production" by eliminating options that they have built into the rest of the fleet for years for example. Bogus excuse for a reason.
They explicitly stated that fully loaded versions would be the first to be produced and delivered, which in order to maximize profits makes perfect sense. Eliminating that just to get out more cars doesn't seem a wise choice, unless there is some major problem that they don't want to share.
So to answer your question: YES, I feel there is a strong possibility that the company will let me down after all.
And about the Ampera: it might be the car for me, as might be the new longer range i3, Zoe, e-Golf, Ioniq, or any of the new models announced from 2018 onward. All of them will be competition for the Model 3. Up to Elon's latest posts I was absolutely certain that it would be better than anything else in its price-range. Now I am not so sure anymore. I still hope so, but my hope, and yes the faith in the company, is waining rapidly.

So that's more important to you than driving a long range EV?

There are quite a few long range EVs on the market already, and more to come from 2018 onwards.
The Model 3 was supposed to be the best BEV in its price range, some said it should even be "the best car" in that range (which was totally unrealistic anyway, but who cares). Not it might not even become the best BEV in its price range.

I challenge you: name just one reason why the Model 3 in its now announced form will be the best BEV in its price range, just one!

 

[AustinPowers]

But did Tesla say there would be a HUD or instrument cluster leading up to the time you made your reservation or since then? If not, then why make the reservation in the first place if the absence of these features are deal-breakers? It's not as if Elon's recent tweets took away something previously promised.

I can only speak for myself, but I reserved because I wanted to get the "foot in the door" so to speak. Plus, Elon said the interior shown at reveal part 1 wasn't going to be the production interior. He explicitly wetted everyones appetites by talking about "spaceship like controls", which to many was synonymous with a HUD, especially if they intended to skip the binnacle in front of the driver.

Now both things seem to have been thrown out of the window. The production interior will show little to no differences from the prototype (apart from the steering wheel), and there will be no HUD, not even optional.
I have driven cars with center mounted displays and others with HUDs. I hated each and every one of those with center mounted displays because it was so distracting to look in the wrong direction for vital driving information. And I loved the HUDs because that is the perfect way to display said information. Especially the latest generation which included optional AR/navigation is perfect.
Tesla is supposed to be at the forefront of technology, they are certainly not when in comes to Model 3.

 

[Yggdrasill]

I challenge you: name just one reason why the Model 3 in its now announced form will be the best BEV in its price range, just one!

Performance, charging network, autopilot, towing, AWD, availability, looks, range, etc.

Sure, you may need to wait until the second half of 2018 to get the version of the Model 3 that you want - but there still won't be anything remotely competitive from anyone else. The first electric Tesla-competitor worth mentioning is the Jaguar I-Pace, but it costs around twice as much as a Model 3, and likely won't be available any sooner than the Model 3.

 

[NateB]

I challenge you: name just one reason why the Model 3 in its now announced form will be the best BEV in its price range, just one!

For me, supercharging is the big one. I really want to buy an EV, but relatively convenient and reliable long distance travel is really important to me. If the bolt had supercharger access, I would consider it.

For others, looks and speed will still probably be best for the price. Highway range and energy efficiency will probably be best too, due to low coefficient of drag. After-purchase improvements due to over-the-air updates are pretty nice. Proven track record of low battery degradation is great for long-term value. Safety rating might be best for price, though we don't know yet.

Finally, the autonomous hardware is the best in any production car (esp. when you include the processor). The base version will not have autopilot, but it will have the auto safety features like emergency braking, I think. The auto safety features may not be best in class when it launches, but I personally believe that within a year of launch it will be the best of any production car in the world. I understand that others are skeptical based on the AP2 feature roll-out so far, which is why I put this last. But by the time we get a chance to order we should have a much better idea of how much potential AP2 has. So we might as well at least wait and see, if safety and/or autopilot features are important.

 

[Yggdrasill]

I can only speak for myself, but I reserved because I wanted to get the "foot in the door" so to speak. Plus, Elon said the interior shown at reveal part 1 wasn't going to be the production interior.

It wasn't. I guarantee that the production version will have a different steering wheel, among other changes.

 

[AustinPowers]

Think of it this way. He's trying to sell something in May 2017 vs selling something in May 2019.

I think his un-selling is mainly for new reservations. I don't think it's to get reservation holders to change their minds anymore, if that was true, he wouldn't be getting rid of the s60's.

-smak-

Possible, but that's very dangerous and short-sighted, not something I would expect from Elon at all.
Why? He wants to sell 500K+ Model 3s from 2019 onwards, after the 400K+ reservations (or however many remain after those recent major letdowns) have been produced.
But if they only release the Model 3 as a very watered down Model S, where should those 500K+ annual sales be coming from? Tesla is well known for being overly optimistic. Think back when Elon said he expected to be selling more than 10K Model S in Germany annually.
They have sold less than 5K in total since 2013, and that is Model S and X combined?

 

[Yggdrasill]

But if they only release the Model 3 as a very watered down Model S, where should those 500K+ annual sales be coming from?

A watered down Model S will still be an extremely good car. The demand is there.

 

[AustinPowers]

Performance, charging network, autopilot, towing, AWD, availability, looks, range, etc.

*
Performance? Who knows how it will perform. Elon said at Tesla they don't build slow cars. He also said fully loaded versions would be produced and delivered first. I have decided to stop believing what he says until he delivers.
Charging network? Not free anymore, and the competition is starting to build a European alternative.
Autopilot? Most unnecessary feature imho, but apart from my personal opinion, the Tesla one is no better than any of the other systems in the market.
Towing? Was there an announcement of a tow hitch for Model 3? Must have escaped me. Perhaps in order to "streamline production", the tow hitch option has been ditched as well.
AWD? What AWD? The one that has now been postponed and might finally be skipped altogether, going by Teslas track record of dealing with problems.
Availability? Are you serious. All of the competitors I named are available right now. The Model 3 is at least a year away.
Looks? Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder, so let's skip that.
Range? Not better then the competition, at least at a competitive price.
So, you still haven't named one reason for buying a Model 3 over the competition.
*

* By the way, with how I reacted to your post I was demonstrating how people over here that I talk to enthusiasticly about the Model 3 react to my reasoning for reserving one. You shouldn't underestimate the scepticism by the car buying public over here towards an obscure (to most) foreign manufacturer with little to show on our streets. Sure, those that do have a Model S or X will most likely be quite happy with it (even though I know at least two who, while appreciating some of the benefits, are realistic enough to admit many of the shortcomings as well), but with less than 5K in the whole of Germany after almost four years, that's not a lot of potential for word-of-mouth advertising.

 

[182RG]

A watered down Model S will still be an extremely good car. The demand is there.

In your country where EV Welfare is ranked #1, you are probably right. Where the government isn't generating artificial demand, maybe not so much.

 

[bro1999]

So the Model 3 is basically turning out to be, like someone said above, a smaller, watered-down Model S. So like an iPhone 5C compared to the more expensive, superior iPhone 5s. I'm sure a watered-down Model S is just fine for a bunch of reservation holders, but must be disappointing for those that thought they could get a 3 P75DL right out of the box (more or less a smaller Model S for cheaper) after standing in line for hours on 31 March 2016.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Performance, charging network, autopilot, towing, AWD, availability, looks, range, etc.

Sure, you may need to wait until the second half of 2018 to get the version of the Model 3 that you want - but there still won't be anything remotely competitive from anyone else. The first electric Tesla-competitor worth mentioning is the Jaguar I-Pace, but it costs around twice as much as a Model 3, and likely won't be available any sooner than the Model 3.

What is the price of the Jaguar I-Pace? That thing is beautiful. Comes off the production line with dual motors standard.
0-60 4 seconds.

 

[Yggdrasill]

What is the price of the Jaguar I-Pace? That thing is beautiful. Comes off the production line with dual motors standard.
0-60 4 seconds.

It should start at around 70k USD. I estimate that a Model 3 75D should start at around 46k USD.

 

[Garlan Garner]

It should start at around 70k USD. I estimate that a Model 3 75D should start at around 46k USD.

Looking at that Jaguar interior.....its at least something to look at. I also didn't realize that the I-Pace is competition of the X.

 

[diamond.g]

What is the price of the Jaguar I-Pace? That thing is beautiful. Comes off the production line with dual motors standard.
0-60 4 seconds.

Depends on where they place it in their line up. The F-Pace starts at ~42K but is also a SUV.

 

[Yggdrasill]

*
Performance? Who knows how it will perform. Elon said at Tesla they don't build slow cars. He also said fully loaded versions would be produced and delivered first. I have decided to stop believing what he says until he delivers.
Charging network? Not free anymore, and the competition is starting to build a European alternative.
Autopilot? Most unnecessary feature imho, but apart from my personal opinion, the Tesla one is no better than any of the other systems in the market.
Towing? Was there an announcement of a tow hitch for Model 3? Must have escaped me. Perhaps in order to "streamline production", the tow hitch option has been ditched as well.
AWD? What AWD? The one that has now been postponed and might finally be skipped altogether, going by Teslas track record of dealing with problems.
Availability? Are you serious. All of the competitors I named are available right now. The Model 3 is at least a year away.
Looks? Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder, so let's skip that.
Range? Not better then the competition, at least at a competitive price.
So, you still haven't named one reason for buying a Model 3 over the competition.
*

Please tell me what other car I can get in 2018 that has at least 290 miles of EPA range, AWD, 0-60 in under 3 seconds, can drive itself much of the time, can recharge at least at 120 kW at a network that covers Europe, has towing and costs under 70k USD. I would definitely consider buying such a vehicle from a different car company.

It is a fact that many aspects of the Model 3 remain to be confirmed. But thus far there have been no big surprises since the reveal, so I tend to believe Tesla. The biggest surprise yet was that AWD wouldn't be produced first - but that isn't related to the car itself, only when it will be available.

* By the way, with how I reacted to your post I was demonstrating how people over here that I talk to enthusiasticly about the Model 3 react to my reasoning for reserving one. You shouldn't underestimate the scepticism by the car buying public over here towards an obscure (to most) foreign manufacturer with little to show on our streets. Sure, those that do have a Model S or X will most likely be quite happy with it (even though I know at least two who, while appreciating some of the benefits, are realistic enough to admit many of the shortcomings as well), but with less than 5K in the whole of Germany after almost four years, that's not a lot of potential for word-of-mouth advertising.

400k reservations speaks a powerful message. I expected that some would cancel once more information became known, but if only 300k reservations remain, demand still won't be an issue until the end of 2018 at the earliest.

 

[Yggdrasill]

So the Model 3 is basically turning out to be, like someone said above, a smaller, watered-down Model S. So like an iPhone 5C compared to the more expensive, superior iPhone 5s. I'm sure a watered-down Model S is just fine for a bunch of reservation holders, but must be disappointing for those that thought they could get a 3 P75DL right out of the box (more or less a smaller Model S for cheaper) after standing in line for hours on 31 March 2016.

They can still get a P75DL, they just won't get it in 2017.

 

[bro1999]

They can still get a P75DL, they just won't get it in 2017.

That's why I added the "right out of the box" comment. It was probably a lot of people's beliefs that fully loaded 3's would be among the first to roll off the production line to customers, but people wanting a 3P75DL will have to wait till sometime next year for delivery.

 

[Yggdrasill]

That's why I added the "right out of the box" comment. It was probably a lot of people's beliefs that fully loaded 3's would be among the first to roll off the production line to customers, but people wanting a 3P75DL will have to wait till sometime next year for delivery.

Yes, I'm sure some will be disappointed with when they can take delivery. Luckily for Tesla, there's no competition to worry about.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Just to emphasise the "no competition"-part. These are the "competitors" Austin Powers mentioned:

Opel Ampera-e:
- No AWD
- Only 50 kW charging
- No towing
- No Ludicrous acceleration
- Not even ACC
- Over 50 miles less range
- High air resistance means low range at high speed

Next version of the BMW i3:
- No AWD
- Only 50 kW charging (?)
- No towing
- No Ludicrous acceleration
- Over 100 miles less range (?)
- High air resistance means low range at high speed

Renault Zoe:
- No AWD
- Only 22/43 kW charging (obsolete standard - hard to find more than 22 kW in Norway, at least)
- No towing
- Crap acceleration
- Over 100 miles less range

Next version of the VW e-Golf
- No AWD
- Only 40 kW charging (?)
- No towing
- Crap acceleration
- Over 100 miles less range
- High air resistance means low range at high speed

Next version of the Hyundai Ioniq
- No AWD
- Only 80 kW charging
- No towing
- Crap acceleration
- Over 100 miles less range

Jaguar I-Pace
- Only 50 kW charging (officially)
- No towing (officially)
- No Ludicrous acceleration
- Over 50 miles less range (?)
- Much higher price
- High air resistance means low range at high speed

(Maybe not 100% correct, but close.)

 

[AustinPowers]

Please tell me what other car I can get in 2018 that has at least 290 miles of EPA range, AWD, 0-60 in under 3 seconds, can drive itself much of the time, can recharge at least at 120 kW at a network that covers Europe, has towing and costs under 70k USD.

at least 290 miles range?
AWD?
0-60 in under 3 seconds?

What car are you talking about? A Model S P100DL? If so, that costs in excess of 150K Euro, not 70K USD.
If you are talking about the Model 3, where did you get those fantasy specs?