Elon & Twitter

[advocate8]

Sounds like a bit of a meltdown in Twitter land. I'm sure it's going to be fine in the end, but potentially more FUD ammo for the shorts and hedges tomorrow.

It's unbelievable how bad the sentiment is right now towards Elon, and by proxy, TSLA. He predicted it, but smh.

He not only predicted it but brought it on himself. It was avoidable, every last bit of it.

 

[sunwarriors]

The eternal "the competition is coming" argument. Yeah . . . where have I seen that one before?

Have you ACTUALLY driven the "competition"? I have. Competitive is not the word I would use for most of them, especially the software experience.

Did you know, VW just pushed their major software revamp for EV back (yesterday) from 2026 to 2030? Not just software, the new factory to build their next-gen platform is now on hold.

I have and own the competition, but honestly, you have folks who own Tesla's here state they won't buy a Tesla now for the $$ for what you get. Not everyone cares about software neither. Same goes for PWs (I'm mostly here just for the Energy thread). Nothing with Tesla solar is that much better than the competition IMO outside of price (what most people tout which isn't much/any cheaper now).


My point again is there was like 0/very little competition outside of a Bolt or Leaf, now everyone and their mother is going EV now. How can that help Tesla?

You see plenty of options with their own benefits (Porsche, Lucid, Rivian (where's the Cybertruck?), BWM). At least Tesla's aren't the ONLY game in time now.

 

[advocate8]

People dont seem to get that. The people I know that work or want to work for Tesla believed in the mission. Climate Change is very important for the youth. It is something front in center in my childrens minds (27, 25, and 21). Social Media companies not so much.

It's also true that its one thing to work 12-14 hour days to get a startup you believe in on its feet. It's quite another to be doing that 3-5-8 years into your job and for an indefinite time frame and a boss who doesn't seem like someone who absolutely has your back.

 

[thx1139]

Didn't he kind of did that after becoming CEO of Tesla? How else did he bring the roaster to positive gross margins after Eberhard lied about everything?

Come on what was Tesla when he Elon got involved? Some tiny little kit car maker. He invested in 2004 and they didnt even unveil the roadster until 2006 and started production in 2008. How many employees did Tesla have? First time Tesla did any layoffs was a 10% cut in January 2008.

You cannot compare what has happened with Twitter with what happened at Tesla. Elon was involved with Tesla for a number of years before he cut and the cut was small in comparison. It also wasnt stupid like this week.

Look when you come in and immediately do a massive cut, but you control who is cut that is one thing. When you follow that up with remarks that man we are going to do so much stuff that people will need to put in massive amount of hours. Then to prove that point you send out an email saying if you arent willing to do that then voluntarily take a 3 month severance package. That was dumb. Let the people filter themselves out where you dont need to pay severance. He also gave an easy way out for the best performers. I would have said thanks for the severance I am starting a new job in 2 weeks.

 

[thx1139]

No, he just walked into the entire launch industry of the entire freaking planet and tell everyone you're all dumb F's and only I can fix this, which he ends up doing.

The industry didnt work for him. Again not nearly the same thing.

 

[advocate8]

I have and own the competition, but honestly, you have folks who own Tesla's here state they won't buy a Tesla now for the $$ for what you get. Not everyone cares about software neither. Same goes for PWs (I'm mostly here just for the Energy thread). Nothing with Tesla solar is that much better than the competition IMO outside of price (what most people tout which isn't much/any cheaper now).


My point again is there was like 0/very little competition outside of a Bolt or Leaf, now everyone and their mother is going EV now. How can that help Tesla?

You see plenty of options with their own benefits (Porsche, Lucid, Rivian (where's the Cybertruck?), BWM). At least Tesla's aren't the ONLY game in time now.

Very few of the competition have driving quality in same league. The german competition, yes, some of them. But the best selling ones don't, range still lags on some that do, and the charging network for all other makes is years away from being reliable. But yes, the competition is beginning to at least knock on the door.

 

[thx1139]

I wouldn't touch ex twitter employees with a 10ft pole. One question employers ask is "name a time when the situation is difficult and how you have managed to work through the difficulty?". Quitting is not the right answer. Tho I guess a worst answer is quitting and telling the boss to go F himself.

Never once have asked that question and the only time I was asked was when I came out of college. You know along with the stupid where do you see yourself in 5 years question.

 

[bkp_duke]

(snip)

My point again is there was like 0/very little competition outside of a Bolt or Leaf, now everyone and their mother is going EV now. How can that help Tesla?

(snip)

This is a simple math exercise. You ask ANY TSLA share holder if they want to be 70% of the current 2% market (of total autos), or if they want to be 20% of the 100% auto market, they will pick the later.

I EXPECT Tesla's market share to drop, but I also am confident that when everything is EVs that they will have at least 20% of the global market share, and that's a gigantic piece of the pie.


No, this is simple "disruption" and Tesla has shown that they can build cars, and do it MORE profitably than anyone else (FYI - Toyota has to sell 8 cars to make as much profit as one Tesla sold - that's hard facts according to the public financials of both companies).

 

[thx1139]

My ask is what is Musk doing to keep/hire folks who wants to build Twitter 2.0? Like, what's my motivation? There will always be those who will work for free/curiousity/etc...Tesla engineers or folks who are massively wealthy can mess around there for giggles, but older folks with families aren't going to put up with this work/lifestyle.

As other's have stated, Twitter is not Tesla when EVs were a new thing with 0 competition, SpaceX when only the government is sending rockets to space. Tiktok is probably killing Twitter right now with the userbase and 80% of Twitter's revenues come from ads which were in decline before Musk and more have paused ads now.

My ask is what is in it for "me" or that hardcore tech person? Are there new private stock options in private twitter for an eventual new IPO a few years down the line? I doubt they'd had time to get those done with everything else going on, but it'd be nice if that is reported so my guess is that's not in the cards yet.

Great/early Twitter engineers were probably paid so much (watched too many tech worker youtube videos) that I doubt any of them are that scared of $$ with how much they rake in.

And he gave the great engineers a way to take a job offer and also get 90 days severance. He didnt control who was given an offer to leave he gave it to everyone.

Let do a little hypothetical shall we. You are one of those great performers and you werent picked for the layoffs. You are coming home from work and you have a partner/spouse and maybe some kids. You tell your partner damn we are going to have to put in a ton of hours and Elon wants it done mostly from the office. Your partner may have a career as well or maybe doesnt, still he or she says that is really going to hurt our family life and the holidays are just starting. Says damn you need to find something new. You dont sleep well. Then a couple days later you get an email from Elon saying you need to be hardcore and work massive hours. If you arent willing here is 90 day severance. You call/text your partner and tell them. They say accept the severance we will enjoy the holidays and you have 90 days to find something good.

 

[bkp_duke]

And he gave the great engineers a way to take a job offer and also get 90 days severance. He didnt control who was given an offer to leave he gave it to everyone.

"great engineers" and "twitter" is a juxtaposition

 

[advocate8]

Now is a nice time for Elon to appoint a CEO, say he will not interfere in TWITr day to day, and get TWITr back to normal ...
wash hands and absolve yourself

Seems unlikely. He just spend $44 billion solely TO interfere in Twitter. He won't quit till he gets his money's worth.

 

[Bad Horse]

Some things worth consideration, in my opinion. First, Twitter is burdened with $100M/month in debt payments - this doesn't compare favorably to startups, where burn rate is usually payroll and infrastructure. Twitter still has payroll, infrastructure, and a very high burn rate to service an enormous amount of debt. I think it's entirely disingenuous to compare this leveraged buyout to a startup, as people here are doing, and it's unrealistic to expect startup workplace effort in an established business. Unrealistic but not impossible, I'll admit.

Second, I have to believe that hackers of all sorts are being drawn magnetically to Twitter right now. Significantly reduced staff, infrastructure budget cuts, management change, you name it. I am hopeful the security team is fully intact and being incredibly vigilant right now.

I haven't been following much of this outside of TMC, aside from a couple of pieces in the NYT. But I think it's odd to say that the negativity is all a narrative and that everything's going fine. Everything might eventually BE fine, but we do have some simple facts that show this wasn't the best work a person could do in a leveraged buyout. The initial price, the attempt to back out and repeatedly badmouth the entire company that he was eventually forced to buy, mocking the employee culture and employees, then requesting at least some portion of laid off staff return, mocking some who quit as "geniuses," the strong wording on work from home and then the softening of that language, and then the ultimatum which resulted in retention interviews.

Those things don't give a lot of people the comfort that he might be doing his best work on this. Some people might be viewing this as a type of schadenfreude, but I think just looking at it as an observer who is not a stakeholder in any sort - emotional or financial - it's far from a smooth transition.

All of that is how I feel, though I have more schadenfreude to Elon than to anyone at Twitter. IMO seeing his just absolute inability to connect with anyone who doesn't harbor his "values" is going to eventually (and hopefully to me) catch up to him. Being an absolute jackass to your company no matter who you are or how you came upon it is not going to ingratiate you to them, whether or not there is "dead weight" or need to shuffle or downsize. More sensible and smart owners at least do the Office Space routine and keep things calm before creating a downsizing hellscape.

 

[Knightshade]

Didn't he kind of did that after becoming CEO of Tesla? How else did he bring the roaster to positive gross margins after Eberhard lied about everything?

...no?


Elon became involved back when Tesla had like 3 employees and zero product He became chairman and largest shareholder like 8 months after the founding of the company. JB joined as CTO a couple months after that.

Eberhard ceased being CEO in August 2007- months before they ever built a single production roadster. Elon didn't become CEO until the following year after Eberhard was already gone.

So to sum up why he did not "kind of do that" with Tesla--- Elon didn't join an already established company that had been in production for years with lots of employees. he didn't join a company where he wasn't FROM THE START deeply involved in development of the product, and he didn't barge in as CEO and enact mass firings of people with deep institutional knowledge he lacked,

No, he just walked into the entire launch industry of the entire freaking planet and tell everyone you're all dumb F's and only I can fix this, which he ends up doing.

Well no he didn't do that either.

There was for all practical purposes no significant civilian/private launch industry when SpaceX was founded, just a few government contractors that occasionally put up a commercial satellite with the same rockets they built for the government.

He didn't "fix" an industry full of bad players- he largely invented a new industry--- and also notable he didn't do it by buying of the the bad players and trying to fix it.


SpaceX was the first privately funded fully liquid-fueled rocket to reach orbit....

Also the first privately developed spacecraft to put a commercial satellite in orbit...

Also the first private company to successfully launch, orbit, and recover a spacecraft.

SpaceX was also the first for:
Landing of an orbital class rockets first stage (on land or sea)
First reuse and landing of an orbital first stage
First private company to send a human-rated craft to space or send humans to orbit or the ISS
Plus a crazy long list of other firsts.


Meanwhile Twitter has been around for over 15 years and it's not even in the top 10 in number of users among social media sites- an industry that's been around even longer.

 

[Bad Horse]

The eternal "the competition is coming" argument. Yeah . . . where have I seen that one before?

Have you ACTUALLY driven the "competition"? I have. Competitive is not the word I would use for most of them, especially the software experience.

Did you know, VW just pushed their major software revamp for EV back (yesterday) from 2026 to 2030? Not just software, the new factory to build their next-gen platform is now on hold.

No one cares realistically about software man, Tesla's can barely handle the cold, see mine struggle city Canada. And especially software the jumps at ghosts at the damn time.

They should focus on making a fun to drive car, not a car that is not fun to drive (anymore)

 

[Daniel in SD]

If you worked in Cali for 6 months without pay, that was squarely against labor laws. And yes, I have personal experience with a startup regarding this. Cali law is VERY clear on this, employees cannot work for "juts equity" in a company.

We had a no snitching policy.
I honestly had no idea but it shows the level of trust between me and the founders.

 

[advocate8]

The interesting thing about Twitter is that while the press (who I might remind you, are actually business adversaries to Twitter) are headlining all the folks that resigned tonight, there are lots of bright, talented, energetic engineers who stayed and are looking forward to rebuilding Twitter. Talented engineers are volunteering to help out Twitter.

BTW, lost in all the noise today, Elon testified in his court case that he expects to pick a Twitter CEO soon after he has done a re-organization. Like in weeks, or less than two months…

TWO weeks?

 

[advocate8]

Pretty sure the mass resignations were part of the plan to flush out the remaining employees and their "culture" that made Twitter languish all these years. Much better than the internal culture clash to come with upcoming new hires.

Also lol @ZenRockGarden who based on your post history devote over 80% of your posts on this thread hating Elon/Twitter and making this place toxic. Keep that energy up buddy hope you're here when Twitter re-IPOs for a profit in 5 years. You should join r/RealTesla while you're at it.

Yeah, ZenRockGarden is overdoing it a bit at 80 percent. On the optimism. The percentage of things that have gone wrong with Twitter for Elon is probably closer to 95 percent...

 

[JRP3]

Here's a crazy idea: Before you post some random news bite or tweet you verify it. I know.. big ask here.

Agree, we should be better than Elon.

 

[advocate8]

Last time I checked there are hundreds of other metal boxes avaliable for sale that can get you from point A to B. So how is it that there are no other choice unless you are a tree hugger..and most tree huggers are cyclist and can't stand cars or EVs.

What IS this gibberish? Never seen so many strange misconceptions mashed together so tightly.
Just another bike-hating motorist anxious to get to WalMart 30 seconds faster?
There are @200-225 cyclists in different mix-and-match groups where I live. Exaclty one of those -- repeat, one -- doesn't have a car, and it's because his income is low. He's not a tree-hugger.
And ....tree huggers don't like EVs? WTF?
SMH...

 

[sleepydoc]

I wouldn't touch ex twitter employees with a 10ft pole. One question employers ask is "name a time when the situation is difficult and how you have managed to work through the difficulty?". Quitting is not the right answer. Tho I guess a worst answer is quitting and telling the boss to go F himself.

Hardly - Elon fired half the staff within 2 days of starting (primarily to avoid paying them their bonuses on Nov 1 - a pretty crappy way thing to do.) After that he proceeded to eff up one thing after another. Then he publicly said there’s a significant likelihood of the company going bankrupt. Then all the senior leadership quit. Oh, and the company is under an FTC consent decree and head of compliance and all the executives quit the day before the report was to be submitted to the FTC. Then the company lawyer sends an email telling employees they may want to seek whistle blower protection followed by another email saying ‘don’t worry, the company is liable for lawsuits, not the employees.’ Then there’s the company meeting called with an hour’s notice in which Elon randomly bounced ideas like twitter becoming a bank but had no clear plan or path forward. Then to top it off he gives everyone an ultimatum with 3 days to decide, and if you decide to stay you’re still subject to his random whims and firings, and IF Elon actually succeeds then you’re part of … a social media company. With no equity, no stock package, no share in the value of the company that you struggled so hard to save.

Yeah, if I’m an employer I’m looking at this as an opportunity to pick up some great people who were smart enough to get out. In fact I would question the judgement of anyone who elected to stay.