Elon & Twitter

[ZenRockGarden]

Setting aside your assumptions here.

What does a typical offer for an engineer look like for Twitter versus Google?

Do you even know? I'm pretty sure you are just making a pile of assumptions here.

Yes, Musk got rid of the cafeteria. That's not a major part of people's compensation or the work environment.

why don't you tell us, as long as you're claiming to know everything about the engineering hiring landscape.

 

[Singuy]

It’s expensive because there are high paying jobs in the tech sector, which attracts highly skilled workers, who earn more, and that leads to inflation.

No one held a gun to Elon’s head to start Tesla where he did.
He got the GM plant in Fremont for pennies on the dollar. A great perk.
He got the top software and hardware talent anywhere in the world.
He got nearly 40% of the initial customer base from California. which was a great boost to Tesla.

Company culture is not broken there. Your understanding of California definitely is.

Elon got arrogant and forgot all of the above, just like his followers nowadays and showed the middle finger to California after attempting to violate COVID safety rules. Yet, his Fremont plant still continues to operate. His R&D is still mostly here in California.

So, please, stop with the absurdity and blind hate of California.

It's expensive because a software engineer spends 5hrs coding and the other hours eating, chilling, eating some more.

So yeah, if Elon can get 10hrs of coding out of the software engineer that is left, twitter has the workforce of 5k people out of the 2500.

It has been a decade and twitter has

1. Too many bots
2. Crappy search function
3. Sexual predators of young children
4. Worst monetized platform
5. Can't hit constant profitability

But...damn that smoothie bar is legit tho.

 

[xetairex]

Was not respectful and I apologize for that.

OK, I’m new to the thread. It looks like I won’t stay around for long.

You say "Regardless of political leanings" and then list a bunch of political reasons which have been beaten to death like the dead horse they are.

I totally understand why people are bothered by Musk's association with him, but your point is... nonsense.

Kanye is literally one of the most popular people in the country. There are almost certainly more people who are drawn to Musk because of his association with Kanye than the reverse. He's not my bag-of tea either, but you are pretty out of touch if you don't realize this is the case.

It’s okay to be anti-Semite as long as you are popular? If anyone thinks otherwise they are being nonsensical?

I am sorry, but that’s not okay. I don’t care who you are.

Also, there are many other reasons I cited there. I could make an even bigger list than the one posted, but hey, I have a life.

But you've either missed my point, or are trying to dodge it entirely.

If Twitter only attracts anti-woke people (not my phrase), does Google only attract anti-privacy people?

Its not just anti-‘woke’. It is people with hateful agendas. Racists. Conspiracists. State actors intending on upending democracies. Wannabe dictators. IOW the worst humanity has to offer, save maybe the pedophiles. Please don’t gloss over all the points raised, paint them with a single broad brush, and then say I am missing your point.

 

[stopcrazypp]

The fact that Tesla, a capital intensive new car company manufacturing in the most expensive state can manage to have more profitable quarters than Twitter in the past decade speaks volume at how broken the company culture is over there. Perks are great, but where's the result?

Note Tesla didn't start becoming profitable until after they built the Gigafactory in China and they also have quite a lot of revenue from regulatory credits. Someone beat me to it already, but the type of workers working at either company are very different too, so are hardly comparable.

As for Twitter profitability, yes they have previously done a relatively poor job of monetizing their platform, but Elon have not come up with ideas to significantly improve that. Instead revenue has dropped even further due to uncertainty about the platform and the drastic cost cutting is mostly making up for that. This is even putting aside as others point out Elon didn't get the company for free, he still has plenty of loans to pay off related to the purchase, which will weigh down on things.

But cost cutting only gets you so far. For the platform to do better than it did before, there needs to be new innovations and ideas. Simply having less banning is hardly going to do that (especially given the first major example haven't bitten and even if he eventually did that doesn't point to any new source of income).

 

[Singuy]

Note Tesla didn't start becoming profitable until after they built the Gigafactory in China and they also have quite a lot of revenue from regulatory credits. Someone beat me to it already, but the type of workers working at either company are very different too, so are hardly comparable.

As for Twitter profitability, yes they have previously done a relatively poor job of monetizing their platform, but Elon have not come up with ideas to significantly improve that. Instead revenue has dropped even further due to uncertainty about the platform and the drastic cost cutting is mostly making up for that. This is even putting aside as others point out Elon didn't get the company for free, he still has plenty of loans to pay off related to the purchase, which will weigh down on things.

But cost cutting only gets you so far. For the platform to do better than it did before, there needs to be new innovations and ideas. Simply having less banning is hardly going to do that (especially given the first major example haven't bitten and even if he eventually did that doesn't point to any new source of income).

Tesla had 2 quarters of profitability in 2013 and 2016 to show wallstreet their operations is profitable even prior to the Model 3 launch, way before gigashanghai. If Tesla didn't pour money into the Model 3 and just stick with S/X, they would be profitable since 2016 in a consistent basis.

 

[xetairex]

It's expensive because a software engineer spends 5hrs coding and the other hours eating, chilling, eating some more.

So yeah, if Elon can get 10hrs of coding out of the software engineer that is left, twitter has the workforce of 5k people out of the 2500.

It has been a decade and twitter has

1. Too many bots
2. Crappy search function
3. Sexual predators of young children
4. Worst monetized platform
5. Can't hit constant profitability

But...damn that smoothie bar is legit tho.

Keep revealing even more of your ignorance.

I have over 24 years of working the Silicon Valley, in hardware and software design. I have run a successful software company which I started myself. I have multiple patents to my name.

I have worked many 16+ hours days in my younger days. Even now, every now and then I have to pull an all nighter when customer issues come up.

Your idea that a software engineer works 5 hours and then chills the rest of the day is absurd. Ridiculous. Stupid. Very ignorant.

If you really think it’s that easy to earn being a software engineer here, come over, and try it for yourself, chief.

Yeah, Twitter was a bad company before Elon, not successful. What is it now? Full of hate filled extremists. Conspiracy fringe lunatics. Democracy hating wannabe dictator supporters. So, good job! Before Elon, it was a mildly loss making company. Now it makes how much profit, exactly?

Don’t forget - this is where Tesla got started. Google, Meta, Apple, Intel, HP, NVidia, and so many other storied companies. They would not exist if their engineers worked 5 hours a day and chilled the rest of the time gobbling free meals.

 

[Ogre]

It’s okay to be anti-Semite as long as you are popular? If anyone thinks otherwise they are being nonsensical?

I am sorry, but that’s not okay. I don’t care who you are.

Since it’s not something I said or remotely implied…. umm… what ever.

Its not just anti-‘woke’. It is people with hateful agendas. Racists. Conspiracists. State actors intending on upending democracies. Wannabe dictators. IOW the worst humanity has to offer, save maybe the pedophiles. Please don’t gloss over all the points raised, paint them with a single broad brush, and then say I am missing your point.

LOL… you missed baby killers. I’m sure Musk loves baby killer too.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Someone should start a poll:

Should Elon have bought Twitter or not?

I am curious about who is truly committed to the mission and to the elimination of the woke mind virus. Do we need a lockdown?

Elon is all in:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1595250835096621057

Volunteering would typically mean not receiving pay.

I still cannot comprehend why Dorsey invested $1 billion so that Musk could crap all over his company.

So it seems like everyone has stated their opinion on Twitter's business prospects under Musk's leadership (dozens of times? It really is getting repetitive.)
My question is how will we know who was right? Apparently Musk has told investors he will take Twitter public in about 3 years. I will be wrong if it is valued at more than $60 billion (inflation adjusted).
#staywoke

 

[Singuy]

Keep revealing even more of your ignorance.

I have over 24 years of working the Silicon Valley, in hardware and software design. I have run a successful software company which I started myself. I have multiple patents to my name.

I have worked many 16+ hours days in my younger days. Even now, every now and then I have to pull an all nighter when customer issues come up.

Your idea that a software engineer works 5 hours and then chills the rest of the day is absurd. Ridiculous. Stupid. Very ignorant.

If you really think it’s that easy to earn being a software engineer here, come over, and try it for yourself, chief.

Yeah, Twitter was a bad company before Elon, not successful. What is it now? Full of hate filled extremists. Conspiracy fringe lunatics. Democracy hating wannabe dictator supporters. So, good job! Before Elon, it was a mildly loss making company. Now it makes how much profit, exactly?

Don’t forget - this is where Tesla got started. Google, Meta, Apple, Intel, HP, NVidia, and so many other storied companies. They would not exist if their engineers worked 5 hours a day and chilled the rest of the time gobbling free meals.

Sorry did you work 16+ hour days at twitter or is this a strawman argument? I literally showed you a video of "life of a software engineer at twitter" and he documented the length of time he coded. I didn't pull it out of my ass...

 

[Ogre]

I still cannot comprehend why Dorsey invested $1 billion so that Musk could crap all over his company.

The board was killing Twitter slowly.

Dorsey tried to fix Twitter and the board shackled him.

It’s not a giant mystery.

 

[Ogre]

Yeah, Twitter was a bad company before Elon, not successful. What is it now? Full of hate filled extremists. Conspiracy fringe lunatics. Democracy hating wannabe dictator supporters. So, good job! Before Elon, it was a mildly loss making company. Now it makes how much profit, exactly?

Not surprising that some people feel this way.

What is a bit surprising is that they don’t realize much of the world doesn’t feel this way.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Tesla had 2 quarters of profitability in 2013 and 2016 to show wallstreet their operations is profitable even prior to the Model 3 launch, way before gigashanghai. If Tesla didn't pour money into the Model 3 and just stick with S/X, they would be profitable since 2016 in a consistent basis.

I'm talking about continuous straight quarters of profit. If you are going to talk about intermittent profit, Twitter was profitable from 2017 Q4 to 2019 Q4, then 2020 Q3 to 2022 Q1. It's not like Twitter was never profitable.

 

[Singuy]

I'm talking about continuous straight quarters of profit. If you are going to talk about intermittent profit, Twitter was profitable from 2017 Q4 to 2019 Q4, then 2020 Q3 to 2022 Q1. It's not like Twitter was never profitable.

That argument was to counter your take that Tesla needed giga shanghai to be profitable.

 

[MC3OZ]

You have your rose colored glasses, and see possible success based purely on a hunch going by his past successes.

This is just my hunch / opinion, but as I see things.....

The factors favouring success are:-

1. Elon's track record.
2. The fact that Elon will not give up easily.
3. The fact that Elon has deep pockets.
4. The belief that TSLA is fundamentally over sold and will bounce at some stage . See point 3.
5. My hunch that some combination of slashing overheads/advertising/subscriptions/banking will be profitable.
6. Elon will probably find enough people who want to work for him.
7. Some other drama will eventually emerge and the heat may go out of this issue.
8. Good things are in the pipeline for Tesla, 4680, Semi, Cybertruck, FSD, Robotaxi. Optimus.
9. What I think works best in IT - based on career experience in a wide variety of environments.
10. The fact that Twitter is a good candidate for improvements / extensions.
11. The existing Twitter user base and income stream are sufficiently large.
12. Banking has high overheads/poor customer service, and is ripe for disruption.
13. The software Elon wants to write isn't overly difficult, and is certainly possible,
14. Elon has some knowledge of the banking/payments regulatory hurdles

I admit that the "free speech" minefield is a difficult hurdle to clear and works against the chances of success while it isn't resolved.

On "free speech" my hunch is Elon may eventually stumble on a really great solution after 4-5 disasters. Probably the hardest part of the mission and the part that is most likely to fail.

Will "free speech" fail bad enough to drag all of Twitter down?

I think even if it does, that doesn't change the fundamentals of Tesla.

 

[stopcrazypp]

That argument was to counter your take that Tesla needed giga shanghai to be profitable.

Perhaps without it (or even without regulatory credits) they still would have been profitable (I haven't looked at the exact numbers in the split), but it certainly played a big role in the profitability of Tesla. My point is it's not like Tesla was profitable while solely being in California as you seemed to have characterized it. Nor did Twitter do as bad as you are implying.

 

[Daniel in SD]

The board was killing Twitter slowly.

Dorsey tried to fix Twitter and the board shackled him.

It’s not a giant mystery.

I'd be curious how the board forced Dorsey to create a culture at Twitter that Musk clearly despises.
Unfortunately Dorsey doesn't go into details but I assume he was talking about strategic decisions and infighting.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1515549577352564740

 

[xetairex]

Sorry did you work 16+ hour days at twitter or is this a strawman argument? I literally showed you a video of "life of a software engineer at twitter" and he documented the length of time he coded. I didn't pull it out of my ass...

You are the one who suggested “it is expensive because software engineers work only 5 hours a day”. Generalizing that all companies in Silicon Valley have engineers like that. That’s crazy ignorant and stupid.

And showing some YouTuber uploading a video proves that all of Silicon Valley is like that? Laughable.

The quality of debate here ain’t too high, for me. Goodbye, thread!

 

[trayloader]

Are you saying Elon has failed in the past, but won’t this time? Not sure if you know what you are talking about.



of course, and I would too. That’s not the only criteria to apply here. Where is the credible strategy for success? ‘I’ll keep trying’ is not credible. How long? What if none of the plans work? Then what? These are the questions anyone should be asking before embarking on such an expensive venture. IOW, substantial due diligence.

“When Elon really needs to be less dumb, he usually is less dumb. He just likes to try all of the dumb ideas first.”

I didn’t understand the above, despite trying very hard. Elon wants to be smart when he wants to be, but he likes to try dumb stuff first does not make any sense at all. No person who is rational would do that. Especially when time is short and bankruptcy is looking possible.

100% agree. Keep them coming.

 

[ElectricIAC]

2020 Q3 to 2022 Q1. It's not like Twitter was never profitable.

Oh hey, that’s when the most severe throttling and censoring of voices that aren’t woke/pro-left was going on.

 

[bkp_duke]

You mean the Trump that lowered CAFE standards which cut ZEV credit sales and also sent in motion the end of Solar Tax Credits in the 2017 tax cut for the rich. Solar Tax Credits dropped to 26% in 2021, were set to drop to 22% in 2023 and end in 2024. IRA restores them to 30% back dated to Jan 1 2022 and added battery storage to the program. Now expires 2032.

CAFE standards I can agree with, but it was not a TESLA SPECIFIC targeting, like literally the words that came out of the mouth of Biden that "we need to investigate Elon's companies."

Solar Tax Credits were set to sunset at those times, Trump didn't put them in place to TARGET Elon.

Tesla has benefited a lot from what the administration has done in the past 2 years, but the OVERT hostility to Elon cannot be ignored.