Rumor has it twitter blue will be bypassing the app store and forcing people to sign up using a computer or phone web browser. Guess it's a common practice that many app companies do to bypass the fees such as Netflix and spotify.
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Elon & Twitter
- Thread starter Buckminster
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ZenRockGarden
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The second one is a myth - not even 8chan allows absolutely unlimited posts. Death threats, child pron, etc are bannable even in that cesspool.
So #2 is actually some arbitrary choice of limits on speech. Elon has already shown he will ban parody if he doesn't like it, and folks like Jan 6th investigators or Antifa if he happens to wish it. So #2 is nonsense. Thus we're left with the actual definition of free speech in #1 which most folks on here don't seem to understand as they wave the constitution over their arguments
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
Yeah, on the topic of demand destruction, I agree. For now, there's enough demand that the damage doesn't matter even though it's there. And the damage will be mostly in the US market which is only 1/3rd of Teslas footprint. Folks in China likely don't give a darn what Elon does with Twitter and Alyssa Milano
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
Most of what I've seen lately is pretty tribal in the style of "vote red to counterbalance the evil blues" and "woke mind virus" rants, interspersed with briefly amplifying assorted mis-information and conspiracy stuff - none of which (as you note) are very meaningful policy stances.
You could argue that his calls to investigate/regulate the apple app store and advertising choices amount to policy positions (very socialist ones I might add, which is amusing). He's also rather obviously anti-union which I can actually understand given his presence in manufacturing.
If Musk came out against Chinese govt positions you can bet Chinese demand would ease off. He does not have that level of courage, his business survival instinct overrides his "freedom speech" position.
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
Oh yeah - that tactic (and Apple fighting back against it) has been going on for years. Current battle-lines on the war involve that Apple officially can't stop your customers from buying stuff from you on the web, but they can and WILL ban your app if you say a single word about it in your app store listing or any content of any kind shown within your app. Your app will also be banned if you even mention buying a subscription on the web thru a push notification that passes thru the Apple ecosystem (or say the word "Android" for that matter). They are militant about it, and they are watching.
Given Elon's personality, I would expect him to immediately go past where Apple has drawn that line and trigger a shooting war - justified or not. And he'll act like he's the one who uncovered the whole area of conflict when in fact all kinds of companies have been in the trenches about this for years.
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Musk has many missions, my friend.
I’m going to take a stab at listing the most obvious, but I’ll probably miss a lot. And I won’t even try to list them in order of importance, because they are all hugely important.
1. Reducing the climate impact of carbon emission.
2. Reducing reliance on oil from petroleum-rich countries.
3. Reducing pollution.
4. Reducing driving fatalities.
5. Reducing traffic congestion.
6. Lowering the cost of transportation.
7. Making transportation quicker and easier.
8. Creating a sustainable energy supply.
9. Becoming a multi-planetary species.
10. Lowering the cost of space exploration.
11. Providing Internet to rural and remote areas.
12. Creating interfaces between human brains and digital devices.
13. Building a general purpose humanoid robot, which itself furthers his missions of transforming the future of work, and accelerating the advent of a universal basic income.
14. Protecting free speech on the Internet.
15. Providing an unbiased alternative to the mainstream media.
16. Disrupting the costly financial industry with a universal online platform (X.com)
17. Promoting cryptocurrency and blockchains to reduce transactional costs and governmental restrictions.
18. Promoting world peace, and reducing armed conflict.
19. Advancing artificial intelligence, software and hardware.
20. Protecting humanity from the risks posed by artificial intelligence.
21. Improving education, particularly literacy. (That’s a passion of his that he doesn’t talk about much). See XPrize.
22. Have more fun. (Himself and everyone else).
These are not merely interests, or desires. He’s working on them! And he’s already made a dent in the universe on every single one of these (and he’s barely gotten started).
And you want to put a muzzle on this guy??
You say this as if it's a bad thing. Him having a business survival instinct means all the detractors who claim he's crazy/out of control/undisciplined and will tank TSLA are wrong, he has some ideas on how much damage someone can do to his business and where the line is, and he's very careful about not crossing that line. And it's not only about Chinese government, he doesn't ever criticize NASA either.
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
When he's ranting about Pelosi's geriatric husband being secretly gay and his attacker being his lover? Yeah, we'd like to restrain Elon from that kind of crap and get back to the mission which he seems to have left to others while he goes on a tribal vendetta.
Twitter is implementing signal which means that private messages are encrypted.
Should Elon want to do it in a private way a private DM direct to the end user is at least a 'grey area".
Apple will find out if a user posts a screen shot of the DM, but the DM can be worded cleverly..
e.g. "The Twitter website has been upgraded with useful additional functionality, including some which may not be present in some versions of the app,"
If they don't remove the ability to pay via Apple, that further muddies the waters...
Well this Leroy Jenkins is ese loco and already has the government on watch.
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
Apple runs copies of the apps in their store and inspects all content displayed therein. They will not tolerate a seemingly "clean" app that later starts telling it's users from within the app to go bypass the app store subscription process. They will find it and ban you, and they are the judge, jury and executioner on the topic. I am not saying it's right - Apple clearly acts in a market-manipulative way here and they've been in court about it which is how some things like the 15% rate for smaller-app-makers came into existence. But thinking you'll bypass them by encrypting your subscription-bypass-in-app-campaign is naive.
The DM doesn't need to originate from within the app, and it is encrypted.
I'm not suggesting trying to avoid paying Apple is the best approach, simply if Elon is trying to do that, try to be clever about how he does it.
Worst case, send an email instead of a Twitter message.
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ZenRockGarden
Active Member
Again - I live and work in this space. I assure you that ANY mass marketing campaign instructing users to bypass Apple's in-store subscription from within the app WILL be noticed and banned no matter how you plumb the data to make it appear in the app.
Could you maybe mount a grass-roots effort to get end users (in their own words) to tell their friends to subscribe on the web? Maybe, but again you gotta understand that Apple regards ANY bypass of their subscription system as an exploit, and they don't even have to justify what exactly they found or how the ruling was made - they will assert you violated the rules and ban you with literally a "you know what you did, and you're gone until you fix it". It is maddening as an app developer, and it's been that way for about a decade. Being in the Apple store is not a "right" - it's completely subject to Apple's whim. Elon's arrival on the scene has not suddenly uncovered this - it's been that way. Ask EA or Spotify.
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Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Though the idea that Twitter could prevent any discussion of Twitter Blue only being purchasable on the web is absurd. I'm not sure how Apple's policy would work in this case.
Many Apple employees have iPhones and Twitter so I'm thinking they would find out. Trying to avoid paying Apple is definitely the best approach! It just doesn't work very well. There's a huge lawsuit about it.
If he's got his panties in a twist about shuttering Fremont, then he should tweet some messages in support of the anti COVID lockdown protesters and post the same things on Weibo. Then bitch and whine (legitimately) about lack of free speech when the Weibo posts get removed and he gets banned. Because unlike anything that was happening on Twitter, the Weibo actions would be compelled by a government, and are legitimate free speech issues.
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LoL why? The U.S advertise free speech, trout it being the cornerstone of democracy and places like China are suppressive and are the enemy of democracy. Musk is complaining about how it's not as advertised. China never advertised free speech but then do everything in their power to suppress speech. Why would he have a problem with China? He's ordering a burger in the U.S and got a pizza. He ordered fries in China and got fries.
I guess we all end up here at some point unexpectedly.
Like y'all, I can't wait for the Twitter reveal on Apple and others.
Just in Time for Santa's Naughty List.
Like y'all, I can't wait for the Twitter reveal on Apple and others.
Just in Time for Santa's Naughty List.
The U.S. has free speech. Does the government tell private companies what they should and shouldn't allow on their private platforms? Does the government dictate moderation policies on social media platforms and on sites like this? Except in very narrow cases (like yelling "fire!" in a public theater), it generally does not. And while sites can be liable for not removing things like child porn, they're allowed to keep all kinds of disgusting content on their sites.
Free speech is a human right. And the U.S. government isn't really stepping on free speech so things are as advertised here. And about China and advertising free speech: The National People's Congress of the People's Republic of China
That is the official website of the PRC.
Let's see what's in it:
Article 35 Citizens of the People’s Republic of China enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration.
Article 36 Citizens of the People’s Republic of China enjoy freedom of religious belief.
No State organ, public organization or individual may compel citizens to believe in, or not to believe in, any religion; nor may they discriminate against citizens who believe in, or do not believe in, any religion.
The State protects normal religious activities. No one may make use of religion to engage in activities that disrupt public order, impair the health of citizens or interfere with the educational system of the State.
Religious bodies and religious affairs are not subject to any foreign domination.
Article 37 Freedom of the person of citizens of the People’s Republic of China is inviolable.
No citizen may be arrested except with the approval or by decision of a people’s procuratorate or by decision of a people’s court, and arrests must be made by a public security organ.
Unlawful detention or deprivation or restriction of citizens’ freedom of the person by other means is prohibited, and unlawful search of the person of citizens is prohibited.
Article 38 The personal dignity of citizens of the People’s Republic of China is inviolable. Insult, libel, false accusation or false incrimination directed against citizens by any means is prohibited.
Article 39 The residences of citizens of the People’s Republic of China are inviolable. Unlawful search of, or intrusion into, a citizen’s residence is prohibited.
Article 40 Freedom and privacy of correspondence of citizens of the People’s Republic of China are protected by law. No organization or individual may, on any ground, infringe upon citizens’ freedom and privacy of correspondence, except in cases where, to meet the needs of State security or of criminal investigation, public security or procuratorial organs are permitted to censor correspondence in accordance with the procedures prescribed by law.
Article 41 Citizens of the People’s Republic of China have the right to criticize and make suggestions regarding any State organ or functionary. Citizens have the right to make to relevant State organs complaints or charges against, or exposures of, any State organ or functionary for violation of law or dereliction of duty; but fabrication or distortion of facts for purposes of libel or false incrimination is prohibited.
The State organ concerned must, in a responsible manner and by ascertaining the facts, deal with the complaints, charges or exposures made by citizens. No one may suppress such complaints, charges and exposures or retaliate against the citizens making them.
Citizens who have suffered losses as a result of infringement of their civic rights by any State organ or functionary have the right to compensation in accordance with the provisions of law.
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I don't think it is just about Fremont, but that is around the time the relationship with the US left when south,
Lots more petrol has been poured on the fire by both sides since then,
In contrast Elon and the Chinese government have never had a major public disagreement.
Part of that is Elon is careful not to offend the Chinese, but I would argue the Chinese are equally cautious about offending Elon.
Trying to beat Elon into submission with insults is the last negotiating tactic I would use. The first tactic I would use is carefully explaining in detail why he is wrong, or at least explaining my point of view and the rationale behind it.
Lots more petrol has been poured on the fire by both sides since then,
In contrast Elon and the Chinese government have never had a major public disagreement.
Part of that is Elon is careful not to offend the Chinese, but I would argue the Chinese are equally cautious about offending Elon.
Trying to beat Elon into submission with insults is the last negotiating tactic I would use. The first tactic I would use is carefully explaining in detail why he is wrong, or at least explaining my point of view and the rationale behind it.
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