JRP3
Hyperactive Member
So you're completely uniformed on the topic.
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Elon & Twitter
- Thread starter Buckminster
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“The electric automaker started 2022 with a net-positive score of 5.9%, then peaked in May at 6.7%. In early November, it fell to -1.4%.”
“YouGov found a political divide in the numbers. The Wall Street Journal explains, “self-described liberals now view Tesla more negatively than conservatives, though conservatives also have a negative view of the brand on average.””
EfficientWatts
Member
I don't think many of us wish ill will on Tesla the company. However what I think this person is referring to is that Elon's statements may make the CCP mad and cause all sorts of chaos with the company. Sure there are those who wish nothing more than to see Tesla owned, but especially for shareholders they do not wish that to happen.
People gotta separate out people wanting to own and people pointing out legitimate concerns. Seeing only one as the other (or vice versa) leaves one short sighted and missing out on opportunities.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Ah, but even the article you linked doesn't "settle" the science. They specifically point out that there are lot of unknowns, and that basic research by definition can fall under "gain of function" (so that's a strawman argument on the Republicans side).
So let's not act like the "origins of COVID" are a done and settled matter. Even as someone with a Ph.D. in molecular biology and has LITERALLY built viruses (adenoviruses), I can tell you that there is reasonable evidence to support both sides (more to the natural side than the lab side, but not definitive, not by any stretch). Doesn't help that the CCP prevented the WHO from doing a timely investigation in Wuhan. That data, obtained in a timely manner, would have been critical in solving this debate, and it could not be obtained early enough to solve the debate. These are all matters of record (fact), not my own opinion sprinkled in on things.
SHOUTING DOWN one opinion does not make it any more (or less) valid than another.
The science is settled? On COVID-19?!? We are still learning new things every day and when looking back we regret a lot of decisions that were made, as they were based on wrong assumptions and bad science. And that is now. When Twitter silenced this scientist, over two years ago, the science surely wasn't settled yet.
Gigapress
Trying to be less wrong
1) This is a different claim than the point I was responding to which said "his politics cost Tesla money. The share price has dropped ever since he announced that he would buy Twitter." If I'm not misunderstanding, @Tam was implying that TSLA dropped because of the Twitter acquisition. Nearly the entire tech and automotive sectors as well as the entire stock market has also fallen since he announced he would buy Twitter, and this was ongoing before the announcement as well. That means that the argument boils down to claiming that TSLA was tracking with the macros, but then it would've been a standout star since March except for the pesky Twitter drama. That seems extremely unlikely.
If we want to look at the hypothesis that TSLA would've substantially outperformed its beta all year amidst a very tough market which was especially tough for high-growth tech stocks and car companies, then that's a lot harder to test in any meaningful way.
However, the observed tight coupling of TSLA to S&P500/NASDAQ/Automotive/Tech has not changed in any statistically detectable way between the pre-Twitter announcement and post-Twitter announcement periods, which is exactly the opposite of what the Twitter theory would have predicted. This is pretty strong evidence that Twitter has in fact had little to no meaningful impact on the stock.
2) If Elon's politics have such a big impact, why did the share price explode in 2020 and 2021 when he was being roughly equally political in public as he is now? What is different this time?
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Hard to be "completely uninformed" with so many holding some agenda and constantly attempting to shove their warped view down our collective throats the way you often do. It is embarrasing and disrespectful behavior to let yourself be consumed to the point that a solid wall is erected to prevent people from weighing things and responding, rather than knee-jerk judging and reacting.
Keeping an unbiased stance and filtering for logical, rational solutions that benefit everyone involved at least leaves me open to consider all points of view and choose to support those which may result in a balanced result.
When someone voices an opinion, as you have about the effect of Elon's Twitter purchase on Tesla for example, and despite being shown multiple versions of fact which does not support it, you hold fast onto your beliefs. Unable to consider that you might be mistaken, and possibly misled as well.
I have little respect for anyone who is unable to face the possibility that they could be wrong. That may actually be a sign of mental illness.
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Admittedly I'm very old so out-of-date on many subjects.
US citizens seem more 'whiny' than any others I have encountered also. After living in a dozen countries and working in many more i really thought I'd seen it all. Not close!
Within the last decade the US seems to have reverted to the 1950's 'Red Scare' itself reminiscent of earlier episodes of national self-destructive behavior. Now it has driven many people to extremes, seemingly Elon too.
The 'woke' and the 'anti-vax, anti-abortion, guns for all' extremes become themselves destructive to all. So why does that end out with Elon fixation? I do think the productivity issue has been ignored in this context, and you raise it in clear and concise terms.
Perhaps the most serious recent consequence of all this is that Elon has now ended out exactly drawn into the fray, loudly and actively. This does not end well.
In Brazil we have been flirting with that set of issues. Our election ended out being accepted, and the temperature have been lowered. The issues remain, but the sides still talk with each other.
The question of national productivity as a motivating force for Elon is interesting, and if that is central to his thing we should begin to see new employment centers in countries such as Estonia, Finland, Singapore and other countries with excellent education systems and strong internal discipline. Other than China and Taiwan there are few that have enough sales to support major facilities. If South Korea succeeds in taming union habits they will qualify.
There remains another closely related reality. Tesla needs direct sales in Texas, the second largest auto marketing the US, one which is first in pickup sales. Will they gain that permission with a left-liberal CEO? Whether that is a factor or not, a move to the political right is well-connected to Tesla needs in the US.
If we view all this in terms of crass commercial reality..it makes more sense, albeit cynically.
Students of world history usually observe business interests tend to follow political needs.
The correlation is undeniable, rather less definitive the causality.
This group being rather opinionated I do not extract charts. a simple search provides the pickup data and political structure of Texas. Not causal, conveniently correlated.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Many of us think he's being far more political and extreme now than he ever has been in the past and there are almost daily examples of this, that's the difference.
Tickets to these shows are about $300/ticket. These are potential Tesla customers. It's ludicrous to think that Elon's antics are not having an impact. It won't show up in the short term sales numbers, but the cracks are all too apparent. This has happened in a very short time frame. The board needs to act.
Your kidding right?
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
What bad decisions? Trying to contain the spread of a new virus by limiting contact, wearing masks, and promoting vaccines when available? We have in this country a very obvious divide on how different tactics worked:
The Changing Political Geography of COVID-19 Over the Last Two Years
A Pew Research Center analysis of official reports of COVID-19-related deaths across the country shows how the dynamics of the pandemic have shifted over the past two years.
www.pewresearch.org
Gigapress
Trying to be less wrong
Hasn't this been settled already? I thought in Texas people just have to order online and get the car shipped from out of state. I'm in Texas right now and have seen plenty of Teslas in Austin and Houston, about as much as in any other non-West Coast urban areas I've visited recently.
And you know everything about Elon and are not a ...
I have simple solution for Elon haters ... sell you shares if you cannot bear it anymore. ... lots of EV options now NIO, LUCID, RIVIAN, Lordstown etc etc
I don't condone everything he says, but try my level best to separate his personal opinions from the Tesla mission he created.
I have some family members that have become anti-Elon and vocal, but I ask them to keep an open mind and see where things lead to in a few years.
Elon has said extremes on both sides of the aisle will hate him ..
(+ I ask one family member to listen to Elon's longer interview forms, and not just his tweets. He thought Elon was the actual pedo and did not know Elon was born in S.Africa and could not run for president ...
)cheers!!
++ And I am tired of share holders feeling entitled to think they can kick founder out of company he created. If it goes to extreme and board thinks it's no longer suitable, then they should initiate it. So rather than entitlement, just sell your shares and move on. Every quarter we have shareholder with 1-10 shares sue Elon/Tesla ... ridiculous.
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ThisStockGood
Still cruising my Model S 70 2015
Well, I didn’t pretend I knew what I was talking about, so 5 points to you for that matter ;-)
Wow, that’s some expensive tickets… interesting where this is going…
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Didn't you link a WaPo article giving "two Pinocchios" to the lab leak theory ? If not, apologies. Thread is moving fast, I know I saw the link and read the article, but thought it was from you.
Regardless, the rest of my post stands as counter to part that "the science is settled".
Exactly, been saying this for a long while. But they won't do it. Just more cognitive dissonance.
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