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Error messages abound, parking brake stuck, and a 5000 lawn ornament. HELP!
- Thread starter geordi
- Start date
NewbyMaybe
Newby1Kenowby
I would try removing the frunk and blow drying all the electronics. Then spray down everything with silicone water proofing. If it doesn't help then it's probably a drive unit short.
I don’t agree that it is the drive unit, because the drive unit was reporting the same list of errors that the other modules were reporting, and getting the car to move has never been a problem if it responds to the gear selector. The motor seems fine.
I have tried forcing a software reinstall and it has failed twice now. I don’t know why, it just fails. Today, with everything powered up overnight and the electric brakes still disconnected mechanically… it started up and drove around fine with the only error apparent was the parking brake. No more errors about ABS or traction control or steering reduced. Nothing else has been done! I am extremely confused.
I have tried forcing a software reinstall and it has failed twice now. I don’t know why, it just fails. Today, with everything powered up overnight and the electric brakes still disconnected mechanically… it started up and drove around fine with the only error apparent was the parking brake. No more errors about ABS or traction control or steering reduced. Nothing else has been done! I am extremely confused.
Intermittent issues are the worst. I had one (non-Tesla) that occured once, then went dormant for 2 or 3 years.
NewbyMaybe
Newby1Kenowby
I can’t figure out why there would be an issue with water intrusion, but that does seem like it’s the most likely possibility and also the hardest one to chase down.
Any rain that falls is going to go down the front and needs to find its way into some sort of a drainage path. Right now, I’m not sure if that is happening. This is a 2013, so it has the terrible design of the condensate drain although that is certainly not in use at this moment with the outside temperatures…
The problem is that I do not see anything that looks obvious as being bothered by moisture intrusion, it’s going to be near impossible to see that without something more conclusive of a failure mode. At this point, I am struggling with what the next steps are going to be, I need to leave and try to go make some money so I have to either solve this problem or leave it as is and hope that my sister is able to use her vehicle until I can get back. neither is a great option at this point.
The service center still has not gotten back to me so they haven’t reported on any remote diagnosis… which might just be because they don’t have an answer either.
Blarg.
Any rain that falls is going to go down the front and needs to find its way into some sort of a drainage path. Right now, I’m not sure if that is happening. This is a 2013, so it has the terrible design of the condensate drain although that is certainly not in use at this moment with the outside temperatures…
The problem is that I do not see anything that looks obvious as being bothered by moisture intrusion, it’s going to be near impossible to see that without something more conclusive of a failure mode. At this point, I am struggling with what the next steps are going to be, I need to leave and try to go make some money so I have to either solve this problem or leave it as is and hope that my sister is able to use her vehicle until I can get back. neither is a great option at this point.
The service center still has not gotten back to me so they haven’t reported on any remote diagnosis… which might just be because they don’t have an answer either.
Blarg.
I may have missed something but is there any actual evidence this is related to water intrusion? If not, that's just one shot in the dark out of dozens of possibilities. It sounds like you know something about CAN. If you can put a CAN analyzer on it you should check for error frames. In general, CAN buses can have error frames and still function correctly but if there are too many of them then it won't work at all. If it's functioning correctly with error frames then it's probably just a matter of time until whatever is causing the error frames clobbers the network again.
With your history of trouble and your low opinion of the Tesla service (which I share) why are you even fighting this battle? While it's running, sell it to CarMax and call it a day.
With your history of trouble and your low opinion of the Tesla service (which I share) why are you even fighting this battle? While it's running, sell it to CarMax and call it a day.
NewbyMaybe
Newby1Kenowby
If Nate75d were to have good results from waterproofing his electronics then it would be a step in the right direction.
I agree that water intrusion is a shot in the dark. And as far as my knowledge of CAN bus, I am a minnow in a really big ocean. What I know about it is pretty much in this thread. I consider myself a hardware hacker and mechanical trouble shooter. I can do some things with diagnostic computers but I don’t have any access on this car because I don’t have toolbox.
For the latest update, I went back since it’s not raining right now and it is going to be tomorrow, and reinstalled the parking brake motors onto their calipers. I did not power off the car while doing this and didn’t even bother putting it in Jack mode when lifting the wheel. If it wants to be pissy with me, it can do it and I’ll worry about that later.
I had to unplug each of the motors because they had managed to situate themselves just below the plastic shield behind the wheel, and I heard the computer chirping at me about that. When I put the motor in place and plugged it back in, it did not immediately activate…. however when I put my foot on the brake and moved the car so that I could position it in front of the lights for the other wheel, the one that I had just finished worked perfectly. And because this is how my life is going, both of them are now working perfectly and there are zero error messages on the car.
Anyone got a can of gasoline and a match? Asking for a friend.
For the latest update, I went back since it’s not raining right now and it is going to be tomorrow, and reinstalled the parking brake motors onto their calipers. I did not power off the car while doing this and didn’t even bother putting it in Jack mode when lifting the wheel. If it wants to be pissy with me, it can do it and I’ll worry about that later.
I had to unplug each of the motors because they had managed to situate themselves just below the plastic shield behind the wheel, and I heard the computer chirping at me about that. When I put the motor in place and plugged it back in, it did not immediately activate…. however when I put my foot on the brake and moved the car so that I could position it in front of the lights for the other wheel, the one that I had just finished worked perfectly. And because this is how my life is going, both of them are now working perfectly and there are zero error messages on the car.
Anyone got a can of gasoline and a match? Asking for a friend.
NewbyMaybe
Newby1Kenowby
NewbyMaybe
Newby1Kenowby
That would be correct - From the car completely losing its mind (electronically speaking) 2-3 days ago, to a reduced number of errors, to none at all last night with the ONLY CHANGE being that I put the bolts back into the brake motors and hung them on the calipers where they should be.
Everything has been electrically connected as it should be since Friday. I don't get it. If the motors are the source (which I agree seems the most likely b/c that was the first issue)... Then WHY / HOW did that suddenly make it so that the CAN bus messages were crashing into each other, and ALL of the following were not communicating or functional - yet intermittently! gear shifter, horn, cruise control, power steering, traction control, ABS, stability control....
The list of errors was long b/c it seems that I was getting overlapping errors from the drive inverter, the gateway, and the pedal monitoring - which all DID keep working. It just seems bizarre to me that one system can throw SO MANY out of whack.
It will be raining later today, so if I'm not driving to buy brakes from the Electrified Garage, then I will be at the car after the rain and see if it has suddenly gone insane again from a bit of water.
Did the software update complete?
I'm still inclined to think it's a wiring/ module issue rather than than parking brake motors. Especially since those would be inactive in drive.
SCCM is the only problem module not on the far side of X991 (which I think is in the front under hood space).
CAN bus in electrical order:
Center Display
X437 Diagnostic connector
OBD II connector
SCCM
Instrument Cluster
X901 connector
Body Control Module
ASC (air suspension compressor)
ORC (airbags)
X991 connector
ABS
PSC (power steering)
X990 connector
X967 connector
CAMF (ACC adaptive cruise option)
X968 connector
X950 connector
OCS (seat)
(Optional blind spot park aid)
X976
TPMS (tire pressure)
EPB (parking brake)
No, the last software update still didn't complete, but there was still an error (parking brake) present in the system at that point. I am going to give it ANOTHER try today now that all the errors are cleared.
POSSIBLE SOLUTION:
I spoke with Electrified Garage (VERY helpful, thank you EG!!!!) and it seems that the root cause MAY JUST BE that stupid parking brake motor design. They said that there have been a lot of problems with water ingress with those and the 4 wires in the plug on the motor are: 2 for the motor itself, and 2 for a hall sensor that has a 5 volt reference source. Here's the key to the whole thing: That 5 volt reference is FROM THE SAME SOURCE AS THE CAN BUS.
So if water gets in it and shorts / drains that 5 volts to ground, that would ALSO be draining the CAN bus!!! I think maybe that's the answer to the whole thing, b/c it's the only commonality in the whole thing.
I've now ordered the motors from Ebay / China because EG didn't have any on hand either (said they couldn't keep them in stock, but he didn't know about the Ebay source) and said that they also are potentially not being available anymore outside of Tesla... So I don't know if he's going to pick up any for their needs, but I ordered a couple extra for me since I have three vehicles that all use these. I feel good about finally having a probable answer though. I won't know if this IS the solution for at least 2 more weeks, because I have to go to California while these are coming from China.
I will come back and update the thread afterwards though. I greatly appreciate everyone's posts and assistance in chasing this down.
POSSIBLE SOLUTION:
I spoke with Electrified Garage (VERY helpful, thank you EG!!!!) and it seems that the root cause MAY JUST BE that stupid parking brake motor design. They said that there have been a lot of problems with water ingress with those and the 4 wires in the plug on the motor are: 2 for the motor itself, and 2 for a hall sensor that has a 5 volt reference source. Here's the key to the whole thing: That 5 volt reference is FROM THE SAME SOURCE AS THE CAN BUS.
So if water gets in it and shorts / drains that 5 volts to ground, that would ALSO be draining the CAN bus!!! I think maybe that's the answer to the whole thing, b/c it's the only commonality in the whole thing.
I've now ordered the motors from Ebay / China because EG didn't have any on hand either (said they couldn't keep them in stock, but he didn't know about the Ebay source) and said that they also are potentially not being available anymore outside of Tesla... So I don't know if he's going to pick up any for their needs, but I ordered a couple extra for me since I have three vehicles that all use these. I feel good about finally having a probable answer though. I won't know if this IS the solution for at least 2 more weeks, because I have to go to California while these are coming from China.
I will come back and update the thread afterwards though. I greatly appreciate everyone's posts and assistance in chasing this down.
NewbyMaybe
Newby1Kenowby
Sorry, but your point? I have been searching, that was what I did first. Read through the threads talking about parking brakes, didn't see anything referencing the voltage commingling between the actuators and the CAN bus. That's a DUMB design choice, but now at least the people in this thread know about it. Not everything is in a search.
NewbyMaybe
Newby1Kenowby
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