Why do they call an OTA update a recall? (24V051000)

[airborne spoon]

The newest OTA update is to fix the font of a dash light, a goddamned ****ing font and it's being called a recall‽

Is it a recall when my Pixel 6 got an OTA update to fix a security patch? No!

I just don't get why these ass clowns insist on calling everything a damn recall. A recall is when you have to take the car into the shop for a defect like we all did for the airbags.

January 30, 2024 NHTSA Campaign Number: 24V051000 Incorrect Font Size on Warning Lights/FMVSS 105 Warning lights with a smaller font size can make critical safety information on the instrument panel difficult to read, increasing the risk of a crash. NHTSA Campaign Number: 24V051000 Manufacturer Tesla, Inc. Components ELECTRICAL SYSTEM Potential Number of Units Affected 2,193,869 Summary Tesla, Inc. (Tesla) is recalling certain 2012-2023 Model S, 2016-2024 Model X, 2017-2023 Model 3, 2019-2024 Model Y, and 2024 Cybertruck vehicles. An incorrect font size is displayed on the instrument panel for the Brake, Park, and Antilock Brake System (ABS) warning lights. As such, these vehicles fail to comply with the requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard number 105, "Hydraulic and Electric Brake Systems" and 135, "Light Vehicle Brake Systems." Remedy Tesla began releasing an over-the-air (OTA) software update, free of charge. Owner notification letters are expected to be mailed March 30, 2024. Owners may contact Tesla customer service at 1-877-798-3752. Tesla's number for this recall is SB-24-00-003.

 

[ucmndd]

I just don't get why these ass clowns insist on calling everything a damn recall. A recall is when you have to take the car into the shop for a defect like we all did for the airbags.

Because it’s a well-defined term NHTSA uses to classify a response to safety defects that require manufacturer intervention.

Whether or not you have to physically go to a dealer or service center to get it addressed is frankly immaterial.

 

[LoudMusic]

Because it’s a well-defined term NHTSA uses to classify a response to safety defects that require manufacturer intervention.

Whether or not you have to physically go to a dealer or service center to get it addressed is frankly immaterial.

True. But how hard would it be to have a sub category called "instant recall" or "electronic recall" or some such.

 

[ucmndd]

True. But how hard would it be to have a sub category called "instant recall" or "electronic recall" or some such.

Agreed… just the latest area where the regulators are behind the state of the art.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Agreed… just the latest area where the regulators are behind the state of the art.

Not really. A recall is a recall. You need to stop thinking about how the recall is performed and why the car needs a recall. A recall is the government forcing a manufacturer to fix a safety issue. Ask yourself why Tesla can't stop themselves from doing unsafe things with their software and constantly having to be forced by the government to fix these safety issues in their software. There's something very broken at Tesla to keep causing these recalls.

 

[Tam]

The newest OTA update is to fix the font of a dash light, a goddamned ****ing font and it's being called a recall‽

Is it a recall when my Pixel 6 got an OTA update to fix a security patch? No!

I just don't get why these ass clowns insist on calling everything a damn recall. A recall is when you have to take the car into the shop for a defect like we all did for the airbags.

January 30, 2024 NHTSA Campaign Number: 24V051000 Incorrect Font Size on Warning Lights/FMVSS 105 Warning lights with a smaller font size can make critical safety information on the instrument panel difficult to read, increasing the risk of a crash. NHTSA Campaign Number: 24V051000 Manufacturer Tesla, Inc. Components ELECTRICAL SYSTEM Potential Number of Units Affected 2,193,869 Summary Tesla, Inc. (Tesla) is recalling certain 2012-2023 Model S, 2016-2024 Model X, 2017-2023 Model 3, 2019-2024 Model Y, and 2024 Cybertruck vehicles. An incorrect font size is displayed on the instrument panel for the Brake, Park, and Antilock Brake System (ABS) warning lights. As such, these vehicles fail to comply with the requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard number 105, "Hydraulic and Electric Brake Systems" and 135, "Light Vehicle Brake Systems." Remedy Tesla began releasing an over-the-air (OTA) software update, free of charge. Owner notification letters are expected to be mailed March 30, 2024. Owners may contact Tesla customer service at 1-877-798-3752. Tesla's number for this recall is SB-24-00-003.

It's up to a manufacturer to decide how they want to implement a recall, either in shop, mobile, or ota...

NHTSA doesn't care how, just do it.

In addition, "recall" means free to customer. If it is not a recall, then the customers might need to pay.

That means those who don't have access to WiFi and don't pay for Premium Connectivity still got a brand new firmware version thanks to a recall.

That's what the government is for: For both the rich and poor in a "recall."

 

[Big Dog]

Agreed… just the latest area where the regulators are behind the state of the art.

Not sure why this is such a big issue for Tesla owners.

By definition, a recall means that the manufacturer must notify all owners in writing, but more importantly, pay 100% for any fix. So, if the computer in your older model S is too small to run the SW required under the recall, Tesla will have to upgrade your computer at no cost to you. The feds don't care one iota how the recall gets completed, just that it does get completed and Tesla keeps records for proof.

 

[ucmndd]

Not sure why this is such a big issue for Tesla owners.

By definition, a recall means that the manufacturer must notify all owners in writing, but more importantly, pay 100% for any fix. So, if the computer in your older model S is too small to run the SW required under the recall, Tesla will have to upgrade your computer at no cost to you. The feds don't care one iota how the recall gets completed, just that it does get completed and Tesla keeps records for proof.

I agree. The distinction is ultimately meaningless. The drama seems like it originates with Tesla apologists like Fred Lambert who think they're getting a raw deal and that the media is blowing things out of proportion because it's Tesla.

That may be somewhat true, but I'm generally on the side of "Tesla should follow the law and stop releasing shitty unsafe software" vs. arguing semantics about what a "recall" is or isn't. That would be a surefire way to stay out of the headlines.

 

[brainhouston]

An incorrect font size is displayed on the instrument panel for the Brake, Park, and Antilock Brake System (ABS) warning lights.

i'm really curious what the issue is, i can see all those lights just fine on my 2016 X n they're normal size compared to every other car with light bulbs...

this is just proof that ppl lost their minds n common sense while being busy with their woke crap...
not to mention staring at their cellphones instead of IC lol

 

[ucmndd]

i'm really curious what the issue is, i can see all those lights just fine on my 2016 X n they're normal size compared to every other car with light bulbs...

I think they're explicitly saying they aren't the same size compared to every other car and that's the problem. This is a binary sort of thing - you're either compliant or you aren't, even if you're non-compliant by the tiniest bit.

I think part of the problem here is that Tesla has poked the bear over the past few years by playing fast and loose and now you've got a regulator coming down hard to teach a lesson.

 

[phxazcraig]

The newest OTA update is to fix the font of a dash light, a goddamned ****ing font and it's being called a recall‽

Because the change is required and not optional to the manufacturer.

 

[Tam]

i'm really curious what the issue is, i can see all those lights just fine on my 2016 X n they're normal size compared to every other car with light bulbs...

this is just proof that ppl lost their minds n common sense while being busy with their woke crap...
not to mention staring at their cellphones instead of IC lol

There are standards. Say the DMV requires 20/40 to pass the test and what if each location invents its own 20/40 font size and distance, then what good is it?

Tesla has not just invented its own small size for the font but also "Stop" means "rolling Stop"...

 

[PCMc]

The actual safety recall report is available on NHTSA website at the following link.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2024/RCLRPT-24V051-2023.PDF

It states that the requirement of FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) 105 and 135 state that a minimum font side of 1/8th inch (3.2 mm) is required. Here's the chronology of the investigation copied directly from the NHTSA document that details what led to Tesla voluntarily issuing the recall.

Chronology :
- On January 8, 2024, as part of a routine compliance audit involving a 2023 Tesla Model Y being tested to FMVSS No. 135, NHTSA notified Tesla that the vehicle failed to comply with the letter font size height requirements, as prescribed in FMVSS No. 135, S5.5.5(a).
- Tesla began investigating the condition, including a review of manufacturing and software records.
- On January 24, 2024, having completed its assessment, Tesla voluntarily made a recall determination.
- As of January 24, 2024, Tesla identified three warranty claims that may be related to the condition described above. Tesla is not aware of any crashes, injuries or deaths that may be related to this condition.


So it seems pretty clear that NHTSA was doing normal compliance testing, and in the process found that font size requirement was not met. As stated by others, these type of regulatory requirements are a black/white, yes/no, you either meet it or you don't. So whether you agree that 1/8" is the appropriate limit, Tesla obviously failed to do their homework, make sure their programming of the fonts on the dash were greater than the legally required minimum size.

So whether you agree or not, seems like a very direct case where Tesla goofed, and therefore being held accountable to correct it just as any other vehicle manufacturer would be required.

 

[thyname]

I personally love these kinds of “recalls”. It causes my anti-EV neighbors, co-workers, family, friends and strangers rage on my face. Guess what happens when I tell them I took care of it via an OTA update?

 

[Spalding]

The actual safety recall report is available on NHTSA website at the following link.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2024/RCLRPT-24V051-2023.PDF

It states that the requirement of FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) 105 and 135 state that a minimum font side of 1/8th inch (3.2 mm) is required. Here's the chronology of the investigation copied directly from the NHTSA document that details what led to Tesla voluntarily issuing the recall.

Chronology :
- On January 8, 2024, as part of a routine compliance audit involving a 2023 Tesla Model Y being tested to FMVSS No. 135, NHTSA notified Tesla that the vehicle failed to comply with the letter font size height requirements, as prescribed in FMVSS No. 135, S5.5.5(a).
- Tesla began investigating the condition, including a review of manufacturing and software records.
- On January 24, 2024, having completed its assessment, Tesla voluntarily made a recall determination.
- As of January 24, 2024, Tesla identified three warranty claims that may be related to the condition described above. Tesla is not aware of any crashes, injuries or deaths that may be related to this condition.


So it seems pretty clear that NHTSA was doing normal compliance testing, and in the process found that font size requirement was not met. As stated by others, these type of regulatory requirements are a black/white, yes/no, you either meet it or you don't. So whether you agree that 1/8" is the appropriate limit, Tesla obviously failed to do their homework, make sure their programming of the fonts on the dash were greater than the legally required minimum size.

So whether you agree or not, seems like a very direct case where Tesla goofed, and therefore being held accountable to correct it just as any other vehicle manufacturer would be required.

I've seen some other web sites showing that the font on Tesla screen warnings is the same size or larger than the warning lights on some other cars. No word about recalls directed at them.

But the thing that surprises me the most is that the NHTSA only discovered this after about 12 years of production. If this is truly a "safety" issue, why was it not discovered before? I don't doubt that this is a tiny issue in the big scheme of true safety issues. .2 of a mm is, in fact, a tiny and probably meaningless discrepancy, but rules are rules. But if this is worthy of all the media hullabaloo (it isn't), the NHTSA should also be front and center explaining its own failure to detect this for well over a decade.

 

[zoomer0056]

Whether or not you have to physically go to a dealer or service center to get it addressed is frankly immaterial.

But that's not the point. The ass clowns should get with the program and at least qualify it as an OTA Recall. The gov't moves slow, especially with their language. The news media may catch on sooner ... or not.

 

[ucmndd]

But if this is worthy of all the media hullabaloo (it isn't), the NHTSA should also be front and center explaining its own failure to detect this for well over a decade.

Like almost all regulatory agencies, the bulk of the enforcement work is done by the companies being regulated themselves. There is generally a good faith assumption that companies adhere to the FMVSS and follow the rules.

I.e. there isn’t a government pencil pusher measuring the size of the font on every icon on every new car before it goes on sale. Enforcement actions almost always happen reactively, as in someone reported an issue.

 

[ucmndd]

But that's not the point. The ass clowns should get with the program and at least qualify it as an OTA Recall.

Immaterial difference is immaterial. A safety recall is a safety recall.

 

[Spalding]

Like almost all regulatory agencies, the bulk of the enforcement work is done by the companies being regulated themselves. There is generally a good faith assumption that companies adhere to the FMVSS and follow the rules.

I.e. there isn’t a government pencil pusher measuring the size of the font on every icon on every new car before it goes on sale. Enforcement actions almost always happen reactively, as in someone reported an issue.

I don't doubt that's often the case. But here, in the NHTSA link provided above, the NHTSA reports that it discovered this as part of its "routine compliance audit" of a Model Y. I would still like to hear an explanation why the NHTSA didn't discover this as part of "routine compliance audits" presumably performed over a 12 year span.

 

[ucmndd]

I would still like to hear an explanation why the NHTSA didn't discover this as part of "routine compliance audits" presumably performed over a 12 year span.

I think there are two general explanations:

1) A truly randomized “compliance audit” surfaced the issue. It doesn’t strike me as surprising at all that a random/routine audit could go a dozen years without detecting an issue like this. I’m sure there are many many cars on the road for many many years that have NEVER been subjected to such an audit. Also consider that maybe this “defect” was introduced in one of the countless software updates or UI changes that have happened over the past dozen years - the UI has changed and evolved substantially. Maybe the cars WERE in compliance originally, passed a previous compliance audit, and became out of compliance some time after. A possibility that exists in the world of LCD screens that was never a problem before…

2) Tesla has “poked the bear” with their ongoing fast and loose adherence to FMVSS and have attracted the attention of NHTSA. It’s just good business to subject people who have shown a disregard for compliance in the past to more “routine compliance audits” in the future.