Error messages abound, parking brake stuck, and a 5000 lawn ornament. HELP!

[geordi]

I'm the lucky one that gets to maintain all my family's vehicles, and apparently my sister's 2013 MS P85 RWD decided it was feeling neglected. There are currently SEVENTEEN active alerts in it, the last time it moved, it locked her out of the vehicle b/c it thinks it is in drive (or neutral) and won't put itself to sleep. It DID eventually time out on her and go back to sleep / park mode / open the door handles after the key was away from the vehicle for about 20 minutes. This was about 5 days ago.

I get to it today, and the parking brake is now stuck ON. While it will go into drive and attempt to move, the brake is doing a VERY good job of holding firm. But it also refused on me to go back to "park" mode, and even with the key away from the vehicle for hours, still was sitting there in neutral with the doors firmly locked. (I left the window open)

ALL of these errors came on at the same time as the first error with the parking brake, but I am at a loss as to why some of them would be connected to the brake. I'm ALSO quite perplexed why so many modules are erroring as "MIA" or unavailable. Where do I start the diagnostics?

GTW_W025_easMIA - It wants service (duh, it's broken!)
GTW_W104_ocsMIA - Front pass airbag always on, unable to detect occupants
GTW_W105_rcmMIA
GTW_W037_espMIA - ABS disabled
GTW_W036_epasMIA - Steering assist reduced (try non existent! It is completely off)
PM_w016_cruiseMIA - Pedal monitor warning: Cruise Control CAN node is missing
PM_w017_brakeMIA - Pedal monitor warning: Parking Brake CAN node is missing
DI_w110_brakeMIA - Drive Inverter Warning: Parking Brake CAN node is MIA
DI_w109_cruiseMIA - Drive Inverter Warning: Cruise Control CAN node is MIA
DI_w091_espMIA - Drive Inverter Warning: Traction Control CAN node is MIA
DI_w089_shifterMIA - Drive Inverter Warning: Gear Shifter CAN node is MIA
GTW_W099_epbmMIA - Parking brake requires service Vehicle may be free rolling (Nope, it's locked to the ground like a Panzer)
PM_w015_shifterMIA - Pedal monitor warning: Gear Shifter CAN node is missing
PM_w009_espMIA - Pedal monitor warning: ABS CAN node is missing
GTW_w027_epbMIA - Parking brake requires service Vehicle may be free rolling
MCU_u005_FrunkOpen - This one is legit, it actually WAS open. All good here.
THC_d0010_compressor - Cabin Climate Control requires service (Don't know why, the climate seems to be working perfectly?)

I have pulled the 12v battery on the theory that this is too many glitches all at once to be much other than a power problem.... AND I don't know how old that battery is. If it isn't this.... I'm stumped. Thoughts? I gather that the parking brake motor probably needs replacement but what about the rest of this, why would ALL these modules suddenly be freaking out together?

 

[ucmndd]

Ground problem? I seem to recall there’s a grounding point near the front of the car that can fail/corrode and can cause all sorts of weird errors like this.

 

[geordi]

Hmm - it's something to look at! Any idea where it is?

 

[Gixx1300R]

Hmm - it's something to look at! Any idea where it is?

Remove the frunk, it is the back left corner of the frame

 

[KalJoMoS]

Rodents?

 

[geordi]

Remove the frunk, it is the back left corner of the frame

Luckily, I've already pulled that pan out (did way more disassembly than I probably needed to) so I'll look for that.

Rodents?

No evidence anywhere that I've seen.... So I don't think so. Luckily. This IS parked on a farm most nights, but it's a horse property and there's lots more interesting things to go after if you are a rat or mouse.

 

[KalJoMoS]

Is this fixable?

I have a 2014 MS P85 where the car would basically bug out and dies when driven in the rain. I think I might have found the culprit to the problem. I was wondering would I be able to fix it with electrical tape?

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[ewoodrick]

I have pulled the 12v battery on the theory that this is too many glitches all at once to be much other than a power problem.... AND I don't know how old that battery is. If it isn't this.... I'm stumped. Thoughts? I gather that the parking brake motor probably needs replacement but what about the rest of this, why would ALL these modules suddenly be freaking out together?

You mentioned that you pulled the 12V battery, did you replace it? It really sounds as if the 12V buss is at a marginal voltage.
the 12V battery gets a workout in a Tesla, unlike a ICE, which has the alternator taking the load most of the time, the Tesla computers mostly run off the battery and it is only periodically recharged.

4 years is about what you can expect. Lots of Model 3 owners got are about to pass 5 years old got the "time to replace your battery" message this year..

 

[geordi]

After more than an hour sitting at a service center just trying to buy a battery over the counter, I am finally on the way back to do the 12 V replacement.

Honestly, this company makes dealing with them about as pleasurable as root canal.

I agree that this feels electrical rather than mechanical, it’s too many errors all at once and that feels like a voltage issue. The computers are not doing their math correctly. I don’t know how old the battery is because it doesn’t seem like there’s a date marked on it, so while I don’t like the cost, this is the most logical first step. After that, I will work on disassembly of the parking brake if that is still being a pain. but I cannot figure out any reason other than power, why the parking brake motor failing would suddenly cause the cruise control and the occupant classification and the power steering modules to all be unavailable.

Here’s hoping. There was no message about replacing the low-voltage battery, the only thing I can think is that the cold temperatures in Connecticut combined with the age of the battery may have just caused it to spontaneously die. It’s frustrating because when I measured it after I got it out, it’s showing me 13.2 volts. But that is under no load.

 

[KalJoMoS]

There is this sticker on the battery and the first two digits indicate production year. Mine was changed 2018 and now at the end of last year.

 

[ewoodrick]

After more than an hour sitting at a service center just trying to buy a battery over the counter, I am finally on the way back to do the 12 V replacement.

Honestly, this company makes dealing with them about as pleasurable as root canal.

I agree that this feels electrical rather than mechanical, it’s too many errors all at once and that feels like a voltage issue. The computers are not doing their math correctly. I don’t know how old the battery is because it doesn’t seem like there’s a date marked on it, so while I don’t like the cost, this is the most logical first step. After that, I will work on disassembly of the parking brake if that is still being a pain. but I cannot figure out any reason other than power, why the parking brake motor failing would suddenly cause the cruise control and the occupant classification and the power steering modules to all be unavailable.

Here’s hoping. There was no message about replacing the low-voltage battery, the only thing I can think is that the cold temperatures in Connecticut combined with the age of the battery may have just caused it to spontaneously die. It’s frustrating because when I measured it after I got it out, it’s showing me 13.2 volts. But that is under no load.

I had a dramatically different experience. I opened a ticket. I left the car in my driveway. The battery was replaced.

 

[geordi]

No change. It isn't the 12v battery, stupid thing is STILL disabled with the parking brake locked. Will not shift gears because one of the errors is "gear shifter CAN node MIA" which is pretty much the error from EVERY module in this thing apparently.

So what now? after much fighting with it, I finally managed to get a service ticket in - and there's no "leaving it in the driveway" because OF COURSE this problem requires it be brought to the service center, more than 60 miles by road away. If I can get the wheels off and disable the parking brake, I can't even trust that the stupid thing will let me move it under power, because it can't communicate with itself.

Horn doesn't work, gear shifter doesn't work. Round knobs on the wheel work fine. Things that I can do in the MCU seem to work. Anything outside of that is not working. Is there a fuse for a CAN gateway maybe?

 

[mongo]

No change. It isn't the 12v battery, stupid thing is STILL disabled with the parking brake locked. Will not shift gears because one of the errors is "gear shifter CAN node MIA" which is pretty much the error from EVERY module in this thing apparently.

So what now? after much fighting with it, I finally managed to get a service ticket in - and there's no "leaving it in the driveway" because OF COURSE this problem requires it be brought to the service center, more than 60 miles by road away. If I can get the wheels off and disable the parking brake, I can't even trust that the stupid thing will let me move it under power, because it can't communicate with itself.

Horn doesn't work, gear shifter doesn't work. Round knobs on the wheel work fine. Things that I can do in the MCU seem to work. Anything outside of that is not working. Is there a fuse for a CAN gateway maybe?

I'm checking the wiring in the service manual.
Which build month? May 31st 2013 it changed.

 

[mongo]

It may be the CANC bus, but there were no TPMS error codes? Both a junction for CAN and a ground stud are the right rear behind the wheel well.

service.tesla.com has free access to the manuals and wiring diagrams.

 

[geordi]

No TPMS codes that I found, everything I've gotten from the computer is posted above. 06/13 on the VIN sticker.

I know about the service manual access - and I did find a ground on both sides of the front frame rails, both seem solid and clean. No evidence of any corrosion (I did not disassemble them) and they were both VERY tight. I'll have to look for that CAN junction area, but I didn't see anything in the front that looked damaged or out of place, at least with a quick look around.

Only thing I DID notice that I now know needs attention - the condensation drain hose is aimed straight down behind the penthouse, it would be draining right onto the top of the pack. Not a fan of that but I don't think it is involved.

The first indication of any issue was last week, my sister gets in to drive to work and it is error message city, but at that point it DID still move. Damn parking brake could have just stayed loose, instead it locked her out of the car (b/c it thought it was driving when it was in neutral instead) and finally timed out and went to sleep around 40 minutes after the key was removed from the area. It's been all day and the damn thing is still stuck in neutral (won't shift at all) and the primary error is "Parking brake FAULT" on the dash - while it is beepbeepbeep CONSTANTLY about the other 18 errors. Hating this so much right now b/c there's no ability to do ANYTHING with it. If the windows weren't open, it would be completely locked up b/c it thinks it is driving!

 

[SoCal Buzz]

No TPMS codes that I found, everything I've gotten from the computer is posted above. 06/13 on the VIN sticker.

I know about the service manual access - and I did find a ground on both sides of the front frame rails, both seem solid and clean. No evidence of any corrosion (I did not disassemble them) and they were both VERY tight. I'll have to look for that CAN junction area, but I didn't see anything in the front that looked damaged or out of place, at least with a quick look around.

Only thing I DID notice that I now know needs attention - the condensation drain hose is aimed straight down behind the penthouse, it would be draining right onto the top of the pack. Not a fan of that but I don't think it is involved.

The first indication of any issue was last week, my sister gets in to drive to work and it is error message city, but at that point it DID still move. Damn parking brake could have just stayed loose, instead it locked her out of the car (b/c it thought it was driving when it was in neutral instead) and finally timed out and went to sleep around 40 minutes after the key was removed from the area. It's been all day and the damn thing is still stuck in neutral (won't shift at all) and the primary error is "Parking brake FAULT" on the dash - while it is beepbeepbeep CONSTANTLY about the other 18 errors. Hating this so much right now b/c there's no ability to do ANYTHING with it. If the windows weren't open, it would be completely locked up b/c it thinks it is driving!

Are your sure the ground bolt is okay? Some people have found it rusted underneath, causing intermittent connection and all of the electrical errors.

 

[mongo]

With the weird modes it's gone into, has it been fully shut down? I'd assume so, especially with pulling the 12V battery, but have to ask.

General musings:
A lot of the errors are different faults due to missing modules:

EAS - 1
RCM - 1
OCS - 1 - CANC
Shifter - 2 - SSCM - CANC
Park brake / epbm/ epb - 4- CANC
EPAS - 1
ESP - 3
Cruise - 2

The errors also confirm the following modules are active:
Drive Inverter
Pedal monitoring (may be SW)
Gateway
MCU

And you added that
Horn - inop - CAN C via SSCM
Switches - work - LIN to gateway

Other than the CAN bus, I don't see much they have in common especially since they are in different locations.
Possibly power feeds, but those would take down other modules also. Are the 50 Amp fuses good? What about the circuits after the relays?

Maybe a failed SW update?

 

[geordi]

It hasn't had a software update in a few months, it has one pending right now (IIRC it was 2022.8.10) that hasn't finished downloading b/c the location BARELY has any cell service and that's how I'm bringing a wifi connection to the car.

It's definitely been powered off (forcibly since it won't let me power it off on the screen!) by pulling the fireman's loop and the negative 12v connection. It's off now for the night.

Pedal monitoring does seem to be working, it knew when I was on the brake, but still wouldn't recognize the shift lever doing anything. MCU and dash screens (and computers) are definitely working, as is that fecking beeper that I'd LOVE to find and tear out. HATE THAT NOISE NOW. Not sure which lines the EPAS / EAS / RCM might connect through, ESP and cruise should use the wheel speed sensor though b/c when I installed a bad bearing on another S (the 2014) I got a bunch of similar errors b/c the speed sensor wasn't present. Traction control should also be on the same system, speed sensors.

I agree, this seems like something with the CAN bus, what I can't sort out is why / how a failure of the parking brake could have made ALL these other systems lose their minds.

Yesterday it would shift into drive and TRY to move, but the parking brake was holding the wheels firmly. Still couldn't shift it to park though, maybe that requires a confirmation signal from the brake motor? With the ability to read the motor's condition, maybe it is part of the CAN bus and the motor is somehow shorted / sending trash down the bus wires and that's why everything else is unavailable, b/c the bus is shorted to ground or something.

The next idea I have is to jack the car up and try disconnecting the brake motor, removing it if needed to see what changes. With the ridiculous price that the SC wants for the parking brakes, and I'm pretty sure their FIRST inclination is going to be to charge me / change both of them..... I'd rather find a solution that doesn't involve bending over and letting them play guess-the-failure with my credit card. So likely tomorrow I will try pulling the parking brake motors... Since it can't make anything any worse than it is now and I have the time until next week.

My experience today just with buying a battery did not give me confidence that I will be treated well or promptly there. The front guy was in NO hurry to do anything, and actually said that rather than asking a question of the techs, it was "more efficient for him to stay seated and message them, and they would reply eventually"

About buying a battery. Now I have to bring them an actual mystery? Not confidence inspiring.

 

[mongo]

It hasn't had a software update in a few months, it has one pending right now (IIRC it was 2022.8.10) that hasn't finished downloading b/c the location BARELY has any cell service and that's how I'm bringing a wifi connection to the car.

It's definitely been powered off (forcibly since it won't let me power it off on the screen!) by pulling the fireman's loop and the negative 12v connection. It's off now for the night.

Pedal monitoring does seem to be working, it knew when I was on the brake, but still wouldn't recognize the shift lever doing anything. MCU and dash screens (and computers) are definitely working, as is that fecking beeper that I'd LOVE to find and tear out. HATE THAT NOISE NOW. Not sure which lines the EPAS / EAS / RCM might connect through, ESP and cruise should use the wheel speed sensor though b/c when I installed a bad bearing on another S (the 2014) I got a bunch of similar errors b/c the speed sensor wasn't present. Traction control should also be on the same system, speed sensors.

I agree, this seems like something with the CAN bus, what I can't sort out is why / how a failure of the parking brake could have made ALL these other systems lose their minds.

Yesterday it would shift into drive and TRY to move, but the parking brake was holding the wheels firmly. Still couldn't shift it to park though, maybe that requires a confirmation signal from the brake motor? With the ability to read the motor's condition, maybe it is part of the CAN bus and the motor is somehow shorted / sending trash down the bus wires and that's why everything else is unavailable, b/c the bus is shorted to ground or something.

The next idea I have is to jack the car up and try disconnecting the brake motor, removing it if needed to see what changes. With the ridiculous price that the SC wants for the parking brakes, and I'm pretty sure their FIRST inclination is going to be to charge me / change both of them..... I'd rather find a solution that doesn't involve bending over and letting them play guess-the-failure with my credit card. So likely tomorrow I will try pulling the parking brake motors... Since it can't make anything any worse than it is now and I have the time until next week.

My experience today just with buying a battery did not give me confidence that I will be treated well or promptly there. The front guy was in NO hurry to do anything, and actually said that rather than asking a question of the techs, it was "more efficient for him to stay seated and message them, and they would reply eventually"

About buying a battery. Now I have to bring them an actual mystery? Not confidence inspiring.

The reason I'd asked about TPMS is that it is on the same CAN right next to the brake module.
Sounds like shifter worked briefly, then stopped talking (shifter node MIA). I think this is the same module that runs the horn.
Rather than starting at the brake motors, it might be worth disconnecting the park brake controller first and seeing if that changes the other symptoms. As long as it's not the termination node, removing it should have minimal side effects. It seems like you could run the calipers manually from the connector also while it's disconnected.

 

[NewbyMaybe]

Gtw182 in the list? Could be a bad parking sensor or wiring. It will cause parking brake malfunction.