Exciting Inter-City Charging Network Announcement

[WhiteKnight]

Elon Musk said on the earnings conference call that Tesla would have an exciting inter-city charging network announcement (if he said when, I didn't hear it).

He also made it sound like there would be some benefits to 300 mile pack owners with regards to the charging network. I can only speculate as to what those benefits might be (free "fast charges"?).

 

[Todd Burch]

Maybe the benefit is that the chargers are spaced a little under 300 miles apart?

 

[WhiteKnight]

Given that range suffers substantially from highway speeds and therefore the 300 mile cars get something less than 300 miles (like 240 miles +/- 30 miles) I hope that they will space them more like 120-150 miles apart.

 

[Todd Burch]

I bet initial rollout will be toward the limits of the real-world range of the 300 milers, on major interstate arteries.

 

[William13]

I would think 80-100 mile interval at first rollout. This would fit the "a half charge in half an hour" montra we are currently getting from Tesla.

 

[Todd Burch]

Hmmm, could be. There are about 48,000 miles of roads in the US interstate highway system. Spaced every 100 miles, they're looking at spending a few million dollars on a US charging network. Maintaining that network incurs costs of course, but this seems like a relatively small expense given the enormous benefits it would draw in terms of sales and customer confidence.

 

[Norbert]

This would fit the "a half charge in half an hour" montra we are currently getting from Tesla.

Probably because you are not always going to arrive with exactly 10% of the charge left...

 

[Norbert]

(if he said when, I didn't hear it).

That part was difficult acoustically. I think he said something about "press" in regard to unveiling the first Supercharger between SF and LA in Jan or Feb 2012. So they can announce it at the same time as they show the "alien artifact" in real life. I think there also was something about a rollout-schedule for the stations following that. I suppose we already know a lot of it, but maybe there will be something exciting even for us other than that.

 

[TEG]

I would think 80-100 mile interval at first rollout. This would fit the "a half charge in half an hour" montra we are currently getting from Tesla.

This makes sense to me for a few reasons:
#1: As was said, you aren't always going to arrive empty.
#2: People can stand to wait 30 minutes a lot more readily than 45.
#3: Competes with other cars that have smaller packs and advertise 30 minute quick charge.
#4: Avoids having high heat build up in the pack for longer than necessary.

 

[Norbert]

He also made it sound like there would be some benefits to 300 mile pack owners with regards to the charging network. I can only speculate as to what those benefits might be (free "fast charges"?).

The 300 mile pack might be the only one able to charge at a full 90 kW? ("half a charge")

 

[PopSmith]

Hmmm, could be. There are about 48,000 miles of roads in the US interstate highway system. Spaced every 100 miles, they're looking at spending a few million dollars on a US charging network. Maintaining that network incurs costs of course, but this seems like a relatively small expense given the enormous benefits it would draw in terms of sales and customer confidence.

I'm not sure what a Tesla quick charger would cost but at $10K a piece (for comparison, Nissan's chargers are ~$13K each) that's $4.8M to place chargers every 100 miles. $10M (OK, $9.6M) doesn't seem too bad to place a charger every 50 miles of highway for reasons stated by Todd.

 

[WhiteKnight]

Perhaps it is worth noting the distinction between the National Highway System (160,000 total miles) and the Interstate Highway System (48,000 miles).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Highway_System_%28United_States%29
Interstate Highway System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interstates get much more spread out the further west you go in the country. Like California has I-5 and then only small bits of other Interstates (I-80, I-15, I-40, I-10, I-8) + spurs (I-280, I-880, etc). I would not expect Tesla to neglect Federal Highways like US 101.

 

[Robert.Boston]

@WhiteKnight: very valid point in the west, but less so in the east. For example, here in New England, many National Highways run within a mile or two of an Interstate (e.g. US-1/I-95; US-5/I-91; US-20/I-90). But there are also important state routes that deserve coverage (e.g., MA-2, NJ Turnpike).

Still, I completely agree with your point that the 48,000 miles of the Interstate Highway System isn't a really good proxy for the relevant roads. Nor can we take the length of roads and divide it by some number to get the required number of charging stations -- roads intersect, and so clever placement of stations allows efficiencies. Over on the Tesla boards, I posted how 10 fast-charge locations could adequately service all of New England.

 

[WhiteKnight]

For what it's worth I am reposting a comment I made on some other thread a while back. This goes to your point Robert.Boston that clever placement could lead to great efficiencies. And to Todd Burch's point maybe it would only cost $10 million or less to cover the whole U.S. with a sufficient number of chargers to enable me to get from Atlanta to Disney World in a day.

A friend of mine who was high up with one of the railroads pointed out to me that the maximum range of a railroad engines back in the day used to be about 150 miles and therefore when you look there's a significant city typically every 150 miles or so (these cities sprang up around the railroad depots). So from Atlanta there is a ring of cities all about 150 miles from us: Chattanooga, TN / Greenville, SC / Augusta, GA / Macon, GA / Montgomery, AL / Birmingham, AL. For Tesla, locating their DC Charging in these cities would make a lot of sense. And then 150 miles beyond these cities you're going to find more major cities like Nashville, TN / Charlotte, NC et cetera where they will eventually have their own stores.

I expect a Tesla Store everywhere there's an Apple Store (major cities). And I expect eventually there will be charging infrastructure (Tesla's own or other outfits) everywhere there's a Starbucks (mid-major cities).

 

[Kevin Harney]

For what it's worth I am reposting a comment I made on some other thread a while back. This goes to your point Robert.Boston that clever placement could lead to great efficiencies. And to Todd Burch's point maybe it would only cost $10 million or less to cover the whole U.S. with a sufficient number of chargers to enable me to get from Atlanta to Disney World in a day.

Following that logic a bit further - a charger at every Tesla store would be fine .... LOL

 

[Norbert]

And to Todd Burch's point maybe it would only cost $10 million or less to cover the whole U.S. with a sufficient number of chargers to enable me to get from Atlanta to Disney World in a day.

Actually I think the cost will be so low, relatively speaking, that when sales of the Model S reach significant numbers, I hope it will be more about finding nice places that make for an enjoyable trip (even if that won't always be possible), than about minimizing the cost.

 

[Norbert]

(Which however can be done much easier and sooner if the cost per charger can be reduced to a minimum while maintaining quality.)

 

[neroden]

I'm not sure what a Tesla quick charger would cost but at $10K a piece (for comparison, Nissan's chargers are ~$13K each) that's $4.8M to place chargers every 100 miles. $10M (OK, $9.6M) doesn't seem too bad to place a charger every 50 miles of highway for reasons stated by Todd.

Property acquisition or siting agreements will probably double the price, at least. To price conservatively I'd triple the price, but we're still talking $15 million to cover the Interstate system. Even if you triple that to cover the National Highway System (which is probably a decent proxy for the somewhat different set of routes they actually want to cover), it's still only $45 million. Well worth it for Tesla if it's done right. And I do think they can do it cheaper than that, this is just a high estimate.

 

[neroden]

Following that logic a bit further - a charger at every Tesla store would be fine .... LOL

Actually, that's about right, apart from rural and quasi-rural areas like where I live.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Installation's one thing but, the recurring maintenance costs and effort could prove annoying?!

And, we are talking literally one Supercharger per site, right? How adequate would that be in areas with high concentrations of EVs? An average gas station can have 4-8 cars filling up in quick time; wouldn't we need something equivalent? Atleast 3-4 Superchargers per site in the urban hotspots?

Still, "if you build it, they'll come"!