Fairfax County property tax appeal

[gnuarm]

I’m thinking to register my car to MD. VA sucks

MD has a large title tax, one time though. I didn't have the option of North Carolina, but of my choices SC was the best. I paid less than $2000 to the county and a couple hundred to the state. The county will be every year, like in VA. TN has the biggest registration tax but only when you buy the car. Once it has been registered in another state you only pay $45 a year, period. They also have no income tax to speak of. Guess where I'm retiring!

 

[Volki]

MD has a large title tax, one time though. I didn't have the option of North Carolina, but of my choices SC was the best. I paid less than $2000 to the county and a couple hundred to the state. The county will be every year, like in VA. TN has the biggest registration tax but only when you buy the car. Once it has been registered in another state you only pay $45 a year, period. They also have no income tax to speak of. Guess where I'm retiring!

Lol nice. I knew you pay title tax in md if you bought new but if registering from another state I thought it was cheaper. I need to check into that.

 

[gnuarm]

Lol nice. I knew you pay title tax in md if you bought new but if registering from another state I thought it was cheaper. I need to check into that.

Last time I checked, they give you credit for tax you paid in another state, possibly only reciprocating states, but VA is on the list. VA used to only charge 2.5%, but I think they are up there now around 5-6% like MD, so you might not need to pay much more. If it gets you out of paying the annual tax, it should be worth it. Didn't they nearly get rid of the car tax?

But be careful. If you "garage" the car in VA they can catch you and make you pay the tax. But you typically can fight it by showing that the car is insured in another state. Just don't get caught by the cops leaving your neighborhood in the morning. They used to camp at the access points on the 1st of the month looking for the stickers in the window. Just remember that if you are pulled over and asked, when you are explaining, less is more. I just say, "The law requires me to register the car where it is garaged and that is what I've done."

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Bringing this back to life again. I got a bill from Fairfax county for 3 months of ownership in 2018 which is like almost $800. I find that ridiculous that we have to pay this much. We should get tax break cuz of driving EV vehicles. I called in today and asked for if the county had any programs for EV cars. The lady I spoke with put me in hold to talk to her supervisor about but no luck smart ass supervisor said that car is expensive so you gotto pay more. I was like yes the vehicle is expensive because we keep environment clean you dumb. Anyway no luck. I think I’m going to write up an email to Fairfax county and try to speak with someone to see if they will ever do anything about this situation. So next year my tax on my vehicle will be over $3,000. That is just crazy...

Between this and the hot lanes we need to build an EV coalition to get rid of taxes, tolls and HOV prohibitions for Electric Vehicles.

 

[gnuarm]

Between this and the hot lanes we need to build an EV coalition to get rid of taxes, tolls and HOV prohibitions for Electric Vehicles.

Huh? EVs are prohibited from the HOV lanes??? When I look up the "Clean Special Fuel" exceptions to HOV they list electric vehicles as one of the qualifying vehicles. They do require a special license plate it seems.

High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) Lanes - Rules and FAQs - Travel | Virginia Department of Transportation

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Huh? EVs are prohibited from the HOV lanes??? When I look up the "Clean Special Fuel" exceptions to HOV they list electric vehicles as one of the qualifying vehicles. They do require a special license plate it seems.

High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) Lanes - Rules and FAQs - Travel | Virginia Department of Transportation

They stopped issuing those license plates in July of 2011. Only vehicles grandfathered are allowed to use the lanes and in two more years - no one will be allowed without either a toll or 3 passengers in their vehicle.

 

[DFibRL8R]

Bringing this back to life again. I got a bill from Fairfax county for 3 months of ownership in 2018 which is like almost $800. I find that ridiculous that we have to pay this much. We should get tax break cuz of driving EV vehicles. I called in today and asked for if the county had any programs for EV cars. The lady I spoke with put me in hold to talk to her supervisor about but no luck smart ass supervisor said that car is expensive so you gotto pay more. I was like yes the vehicle is expensive because we keep environment clean you dumb. Anyway no luck. I think I’m going to write up an email to Fairfax county and try to speak with someone to see if they will ever do anything about this situation. So next year my tax on my vehicle will be over $3,000. That is just crazy...

Personally I agree with you about EVs getting a break to incentivize more buyers to purchase and due to the benefits of EVs (reduced emissions, improved safety, less wear and tear on the roads from fuel tankers which are giant rolling HAZMAT bombs etc etc). However, the law is the law. If you don't like it, lobby your local State representative to change the State code or your local Board of Supervisors to enact EV credits towards personal property tax. I know we should pay our fair share to support road infrastructure etc but the annual tax (based on assed value) on a vehicle with such expensive tech is illogical and ignores the societal costs that ICE vehicles cause.

That said, there was a letter from the Fairfax County Director of Tax Administration from 2014 posted upthread #47
which basically outlined how they set the value of a vehicle for taxation purposes. They use a "recognized pricing guide" (such as N.A.D.A.) to look at the value base model of the vehicle, without options. If that is not available (not published in the guide), they apply 95% to the MSRP the first year and 90% the second. I would suggest you look at the assessed value of the car on your tax assessment and see which of these rules were used to determine your assessed value. I have personally experienced some assessment errors with both my Model S and Model 3 which I appealed to the locality (Loudoun County for me).

 

[Max*]

But be careful. If you "garage" the car in VA they can catch you and make you pay the tax. But you typically can fight it by showing that the car is insured in another state. Just don't get caught by the cops leaving your neighborhood in the morning. They used to camp at the access points on the 1st of the month looking for the stickers in the window. Just remember that if you are pulled over and asked, when you are explaining, less is more. I just say, "The law requires me to register the car where it is garaged and that is what I've done."

If you're doing this within the lines of the law, wonderful. If you're trying to avoid paying higher property taxes/insurance/etc., be careful doing this -- it can come back to bite you.

From experience from someone I know who had multiple residences and decided to insure their car in a the state with the lowest insurance/property tax/etc. -- and something happened, the insurance company refused to pay their claim. Said the car has to be insured in the state where it spends the most time (you live and work and spend most of your time in state A, but have property in states B, C and D. You still have to insure in A).

 

[gnuarm]

Personally I agree with you about EVs getting a break to incentivize more buyers to purchase and due to the benefits of EVs (reduced emissions, improved safety, less wear and tear on the roads from fuel tankers which are giant rolling HAZMAT bombs etc etc). However, the law is the law. If you don't like it, lobby your local State representative to change the State code or your local Board of Supervisors to enact EV credits towards personal property tax. I know we should pay our fair share to support road infrastructure etc but the annual tax (based on assed value) on a vehicle with such expensive tech is illogical and ignores the societal costs that ICE vehicles cause.

That said, there was a letter from the Fairfax County Director of Tax Administration from 2014 posted upthread #47
which basically outlined how they set the value of a vehicle for taxation purposes. They use a "recognized pricing guide" (such as N.A.D.A.) to look at the value base model of the vehicle, without options. If that is not available (not published in the guide), they apply 95% to the MSRP the first year and 90% the second. I would suggest you look at the assessed value of the car on your tax assessment and see which of these rules were used to determine your assessed value. I have personally experienced some assessment errors with both my Model S and Model 3 which I appealed to the locality (Loudoun County for me).

I was not aware that the VA code specified the vehicle without options. In SC I was taxed on the total sticker price which was nearly double. But then the tax rate is not so high I believe. Still, it had not escaped me that some of the options are software upgrades available after the sale. However the Tesla tax (post sale markup) was higher than the government tax.

 

[gnuarm]

If you're doing this within the lines of the law, wonderful. If you're trying to avoid paying higher property taxes/insurance/etc., be careful doing this -- it can come back to bite you.

From experience from someone I know who had multiple residences and decided to insure their car in a the state with the lowest insurance/property tax/etc. -- and something happened, the insurance company refused to pay their claim. Said the car has to be insured in the state where it spends the most time (you live and work and spend most of your time in state A, but have property in states B, C and D. You still have to insure in A).

Having multiple vehicles means there can be no general statement of where any car is "most of the time" unless some sort of records are kept.

The key issue here is the residence location and the vehicle "garaged" location do not need to be the same. So where the owner spends their time is not the issue. It's about where the car is kept.

 

[Volki]

Between this and the hot lanes we need to build an EV coalition to get rid of taxes, tolls and HOV prohibitions for Electric Vehicles.

Agreed

 

[Max*]

Having multiple vehicles means there can be no general statement of where any car is "most of the time" unless some sort of records are kept.

The key issue here is the residence location and the vehicle "garaged" location do not need to be the same. So where the owner spends their time is not the issue. It's about where the car is kept.

So you insure your cars in different states? Otherwise the last sentence is a moot point.

I stated where the vehicle spends most of it's time, I never argued about the owner (though the insurance company did look into employment records and property records of the person). They did have multiple cars (though both were insured out-of-state), so that didn't help. You can argue till you're blue in the face with the insurance company, and good luck suing them when you were violating the terms of your insurance.

Like I said, be careful doing this (if you're trying to avoid the law/rules/regulations/whatever) -- it can come back to bite you if you ever need to file a claim.

 

[Volki]

If you're doing this within the lines of the law, wonderful. If you're trying to avoid paying higher property taxes/insurance/etc., be careful doing this -- it can come back to bite you.

From experience from someone I know who had multiple residences and decided to insure their car in a the state with the lowest insurance/property tax/etc. -- and something happened, the insurance company refused to pay their claim. Said the car has to be insured in the state where it spends the most time (you live and work and spend most of your time in state A, but have property in states B, C and D. You still have to insure in A).

Yup you’re right.

 

[Volki]

I used to have FL tags and FL license when I had a property there but even than doesn’t work cuz wherever you garage your car that’s where they make you pay taxes in VA even if you have another state tags.

 

[Volki]

But with all said I think there should be a tax break for EV cars. Im not saying don’t pay anything pay something but not like a regular car

 

[Max*]

But with all said I think there should be a tax break for EV cars. Im not saying don’t pay anything pay something but not like a regular car

I agree.

Instead each time you register the car you need to pay an extra $64/year; then when you go to pay your property taxes ever year (since the EV is expensive), they take more money from you; and you can't use the damn thing on 395, 495 or 66 without paying a toll.

 

[gnuarm]

So you insure your cars in different states? Otherwise the last sentence is a moot point.

Presently each auto is insured in the state where it is registered of course. The insurance company had a bit of a start initially. But then I explained that I live in multiple locations and one vehicle is a truck which I have for specific uses rather than a general purpose vehicle.

I stated where the vehicle spends most of it's time, I never argued about the owner (though the insurance company did look into employment records and property records of the person). They did have multiple cars (though both were insured out-of-state), so that didn't help. You can argue till you're blue in the face with the insurance company, and good luck suing them when you were violating the terms of your insurance.

(you live and work and spend most of your time in state A, but have property in states B, C and D. You still have to insure in A).

I was responding to this.

Like I said, be careful doing this (if you're trying to avoid the law/rules/regulations/whatever) -- it can come back to bite you if you ever need to file a claim.

I'm not violating anything. As I've said, I live in multiple locations and spend significant time in each, but likely not a majority of the time anywhere. I don't actually keep track and anyone else would have a hard time tracking it as well.

 

[gnuarm]

Yup you’re right.

Not exactly. It's not where I spend most of my time. It's where the car is garaged. I used to fight that battle when I lived in Fairfax county VA, but a girlfriend was in Leesburg. I'd get tickets at the 1st of the month if I was parked in the city parking deck. I would have to go to court and show that I had a Fairfax home and a Fairfax sticker. Dealing with the county was easier, I just needed to send them a copy of my insurance card showing Fairfax.

Years later when I moved to MD I was sent a tax bill. I called to explain that I had moved from the state. They said since I didn't inform them I had moved, I still owed the tax. LOL!

 

[Max*]

I was responding to this.

You are correct, I should have said "(you live and work and your car spends most of it's time in state A, but have property in states B, C and D. You still have to insure in A)."

For most people the place where they live and work would be the place where their car spends most of it's time, I sort of assumed it's implied.

 

[gnuarm]

You are correct, I should have said "(you live and work and your car spends most of it's time in state A, but have property in states B, C and D. You still have to insure in A)."

For most people the place where they live and work would be the place where their car spends most of it's time, I sort of assumed it's implied.

That's why I pointed out that I own multiple cars. That decouples the "where" of each car from the "where" of the owner.