Fairfax County property tax appeal

[CatB]

@gnuarm - I lived in MD, bought, titled and insured my MS in MD. Then moved to VA where I bought, insured and titled my M3. MS lives at my parents’ garage in MD. MD insurance on the MS is FAR higher than VA insurance on my M3. Just curious what you’ve found there? USAA explained that MD’s no-fault insurance law is to blame.
It seems to me that in today’s prevalent-distracted-driving world, no-fault is a way for the innocent to pay the cost that the guilty incur. Just a gut feel that people don’t care about damaging others’ property because it’s not theirs, which bothers me on quite a few levels.

 

[gnuarm]

@gnuarm - I lived in MD, bought, titled and insured my MS in MD. Then moved to VA where I bought, insured and titled my M3. MS lives at my parents’ garage in MD. MD insurance on the MS is FAR higher than VA insurance on my M3. Just curious what you’ve found there? USAA explained that MD’s no-fault insurance law is to blame.
It seems to me that in today’s prevalent-distracted-driving world, no-fault is a way for the innocent to pay the cost that the guilty incur. Just a gut feel that people don’t care about damaging others’ property because it’s not theirs, which bothers me on quite a few levels.

I can't say anything. I know when I moved from WV to TN my insurance went up a bit on the truck, but it wasn't much and sometimes that's because of different coverages required. I didn't realize MD is no-fault. I don't know for sure what that means, but when a lady hit me a couple of years ago in MD the two insurance companies worked it out by assigning blame.

Cost is going to be a function of the value of the car. I assume the model S is much more expensive than the 3, no? Ask for a quote in the other state for each car. It can't hurt to ask.

As a footnote, I'm with State Farm for my houses and made a payment online last night around 11. I noticed they had the wrong mailing address for one policy, but when I tried to edit it the right address showed. I used the "email your agent" link to ask someone to look into this... and I got a reply back in less that 15 minutes!!! If I had known he would get the email at home on his phone I would never have sent it.

 

[plumazul]

@gnuarm - I lived in MD, bought, titled and insured my MS in MD. Then moved to VA where I bought, insured and titled my M3. MS lives at my parents’ garage in MD. MD insurance on the MS is FAR higher than VA insurance on my M3. Just curious what you’ve found there? USAA explained that MD’s no-fault insurance law is to blame.
It seems to me that in today’s prevalent-distracted-driving world, no-fault is a way for the innocent to pay the cost that the guilty incur. Just a gut feel that people don’t care about damaging others’ property because it’s not theirs, which bothers me on quite a few levels.

Maryland is not a no-fault state. My wife had an accident where someone turned in front of her. The other insurance company paid for everything. (car totaled, med/ems, pain/suffering, etc.) Our insurance company (also USAA) paid for nothing.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

More Taxes from Virginia:
1. Annual electric vehicle Tax - $64
2. Annual clean fuel plate Tax - $25
3. Annual personalized tag Tax - $10
4. Annual Vehicle Registration Tax - $40.75
5. We dont have to pay Emissions Testing Tax (Minus) $28

3 year total is $419.25... Oh Joy.... then I get to pay for the daily toll tax...

 

[Max*]

Look on the bright side, you saved 3 whole dollars by doing a multi-year registration! And let's not forget the $1 savings from doing it all online!

 

[CatB]

Maryland is not a no-fault state. My wife had an accident where someone turned in front of her. The other insurance company paid for everything. (car totaled, med/ems, pain/suffering, etc.) Our insurance company (also USAA) paid for nothing.

Sorry, I think I did mis-remember that. Is it the insurance that you have to carry in case the other person isn’t insured? I also had a clear case of someone running into me and USAA got her insurance to even pay my deductible. But USAA did say there was something about MD insurance that makes it much higher.

 

[lensovet]

Lol you people complaining, yearly registration in CA is over $600…and personalized plates cost $80/year on top of that.

 

[CatB]

Lol you people complaining, yearly registration in CA is over $600…and personalized plates cost $80/year on top of that.

do you have $1-3K personal property tax on top of that too?

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Lol you people complaining, yearly registration in CA is over $600…and personalized plates cost $80/year on top of that.

DAMN... yet another reason not to live there.. whats your annual property tax on a Tesla? one year I owned $7000 (3 X Model S's)!!!

 

[jthompson]

Politicians are going to get your money one way or another. If Virginia did away with personal property tax (which I wish they did), real estate (and rental costs) and sales taxes and other fees and taxes would have to be increased. It's a zero sum game because few governments ever cut their budget - they will have to compensate for loss of revenue other ways (as they have with the EV registration fee since we are not paying gas tax). Let's move on.....

 

[CatB]

Politicians are going to get your money one way or another. If Virginia did away with personal property tax (which I wish they did), real estate (and rental costs) and sales taxes and other fees and taxes would have to be increased. It's a zero sum game because few governments ever cut their budget - they will have to compensate for loss of revenue other ways (as they have with the EV registration fee since we are not paying gas tax). Let's move on.....

Yeah but, the taxes should be fair.
If all cars were taxed based on miles driven, that would be a bit fairer, imo.
And if NADA gave a fairer price for EVs, that would help.
Why am I paying PPT on features for my car when ICE owners don’t? My M3 is taxed at what I paid for it - and I think the PIP was $15K? And the price for newer M3s has gone *down* - to compensate for the expiring EV credit, so is that going to impact my tax? Probably not.
Plus... who’s paying the environmental and health cost for all the gas ICEs burn? All of us, even when we’re not doing the damage.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Do a tax on the CO2 they release and call it done... screw this value of the car thing, do the tax on environmental damage...

 

[gnuarm]

Politicians are going to get your money one way or another. If Virginia did away with personal property tax (which I wish they did), real estate (and rental costs) and sales taxes and other fees and taxes would have to be increased. It's a zero sum game because few governments ever cut their budget - they will have to compensate for loss of revenue other ways (as they have with the EV registration fee since we are not paying gas tax). Let's move on.....

I'm sure everyone recalls the "great recession" which followed the real estate bubble. In Frederick, MD they were getting tons more money each year as valuations rose and STILL raised the tax rate! Then when valuations dropped they said they couldn't run a county government on decreasing revenues (which had only been going up wildly for four or five years) and raised the tax rate!

Taxpayers keep voting for the same people because they don't want to think for themselves. So we end up with crap like this where tax rates are high enough to literally run people away. That's why I left.

 

[gnuarm]

Do a tax on the CO2 they release and call it done... screw this value of the car thing, do the tax on environmental damage...

That is one of the most intelligent posts on here. That would essentially end up being a mileage tax. I think that would be fair and should also be levied on EVs since they also produce CO2, just not at the tail pipe they don't have.

But.... this would be a new tax on everyone and so would be unpopular even if the price of gas dropped because of it. In many places the price of gas would not drop significantly, eliminating a gas tax would just provide more profits for the gas industry. Then everyone would be pissed over the new tax and the politicians would lose their offices.

Adding a tax on EVs with a reasonable sounding justification means a very small minority gets upset about it (at first anyway) and another tax is born that will never die. Unfortunately this one is purely on the residents while a gas tax is also paid by anyone driving through the state.

Tennessee seem to be more reasonable about the whole thing. I'm going to make sure my car is registered there next year.

 

[CatB]

That is one of the most intelligent posts on here. That would essentially end up being a mileage tax. I think that would be fair and should also be levied on EVs since they also produce CO2, just not at the tail pipe they don't have.

But.... this would be a new tax on everyone and so would be unpopular even if the price of gas dropped because of it. In many places the price of gas would not drop significantly, eliminating a gas tax would just provide more profits for the gas industry. Then everyone would be pissed over the new tax and the politicians would lose their offices.

Adding a tax on EVs with a reasonable sounding justification means a very small minority gets upset about it (at first anyway) and another tax is born that will never die. Unfortunately this one is purely on the residents while a gas tax is also paid by anyone driving through the state.

Tennessee seem to be more reasonable about the whole thing. I'm going to make sure my car is registered there next year.

There is a better way...
@Pollux

 

[admiralpatb]

Yeah but, the taxes should be fair.
If all cars were taxed based on miles driven, that would be a bit fairer, imo.
And if NADA gave a fairer price for EVs, that would help.
Why am I paying PPT on features for my car when ICE owners don’t? My M3 is taxed at what I paid for it - and I think the PIP was $15K? And the price for newer M3s has gone *down* - to compensate for the expiring EV credit, so is that going to impact my tax? Probably not.
Plus... who’s paying the environmental and health cost for all the gas ICEs burn? All of us, even when we’re not doing the damage.

Unfortunately, I had a similar problem. My 2017 Model S was taxed in 2018 at *greater* than the purchase price from 2017. The base price of the MS was lowered in April 2017, but the NADA guide didn't reflect the fact that the base price of the vehicle went *down*. All the pricing changes for the Model 3 will make the taxation in 2020 a surprise because it's based on whatever the NADA guide says in January of the tax year based on VA law.

 

[gnuarm]

Maybe someone can give me a refresher course in VA taxes. I thought they reduced the car tax to 20% of what it was when I lived there. What is the tax rate?

 

[Max*]

Maybe someone can give me a refresher course in VA taxes. I thought they reduced the car tax to 20% of what it was when I lived there. What is the tax rate?

$4.57 per $100 of assessed value, Virginia subsidizes a percentage of the taxes on the first $20,000 of assessed value (I forget how much, 67%? maybe i'm way off)

 

[RunMadM3]

Bringing this back to life again. I got a bill from Fairfax county for 3 months of ownership in 2018 which is like almost $800. I find that ridiculous that we have to pay this much. We should get tax break cuz of driving EV vehicles. I called in today and asked for if the county had any programs for EV cars. The lady I spoke with put me in hold to talk to her supervisor about but no luck smart ass supervisor said that car is expensive so you gotto pay more. I was like yes the vehicle is expensive because we keep environment clean you dumb. Anyway no luck. I think I’m going to write up an email to Fairfax county and try to speak with someone to see if they will ever do anything about this situation. So next year my tax on my vehicle will be over $3,000. That is just crazy...

I just received the same awakening - I had a 2018 $490 tax bill for my (09/18) M3 purchase - I had paid my 2018 taxes and thought it was a mistake. I goto the Fairfax DTA site and lo-and-behold for 2019 I see a $1950 tax bill (vs. my old 3-series ~$200/yr bill). I did a bunch of research but apparently not enough...

 

[Redmiata98]

Need more info, what changed? Were you only charged for a partial year last year and now for a full year? A $1950 tax bill would equate to around a $70k assessment of the worth of your model 3.