Faster A/C charging?

[brkaus]

@Dbitter1 the 80a off menu option has been gone for a long time.

 

[Dbitter1]

@brkaus I have no doubt in the Tesla world that what one person says is possible, really isn't.

This was last month from my local SC- they swear they could pull it off. They seemed more surprised anyone still had a Gen 1 charger and could use it if they did it.

 

[S3XY]

Status? 99.99% of the population will not be able to see or understand the differences between the different flavors of the truck.

Who is so silly to think a 3 second pickup is important for 100,000 purchasers? A few sure, just like the people who a snow plow on the front of a Porsche.

100,000? So about 10% of buyers? Maybe.

 

[raptor5244]

100,000? So about 10% of buyers? Maybe.

I like the idea of a CT model doing 2.9 sec 0-60 mph but IMO that kind of acceleration is only fun if vehicle has sports car handling characteristics to match. I think the dual motor version will be the sweet spot for price/performance, especially if they $10k tax credit kicks in.

 

[qdeathstar]

Higher than 48 amps starts to get real impractical for most residential electrical systems...

 

[sperlaky]

No body foresaw we would want to use electricity other than lights.

I did and that’s why I installed a 400A service for my home. Hopefully they offer an 80A charger for the
Tri-motor.

 

[sperlaky]

I think most of slow charging advocates miss the point. People are not buying 150-200 kWh batteries because they drive 10 miles to work.

They are towing, going to cabins with no/minimal power, to trailheads far away from any Superchargers, traveling a lot in very cold locations, etc.

A nominal 500 mile range will be less than 250 miles towing a big trailer in cold weather, assuming flat terrain. Higher speed AC charging will be mportant.

The 500 mile CT is not for urban cowboys going to the mall. The short range trucks, sure.

I can’t wait for my CT. I use the 72 A charging on my X all the time. Important for midday charging when needed.

I do as well on my X. They need at least a 72A charger on the tri-motor.

 

[Rocky_H]

Hopefully they offer an 80A charger for the
Tri-motor. [...] I do as well on my X. They need at least a 72A charger on the tri-motor.

Neither of these is going to happen. That ship sailed when Tesla moved their wall connectors to lower power versions that will only do 48A. Sorry. Tesla doesn't believe in higher power onboard chargers anymore. They think there is enough Supercharger coverage that people should just use that if they need anything faster than 48A AC charging.

 

[Akikiki]

Excellent point @Rocky_H. Very good observation.

 

[doghousePVD]

Neither of these is going to happen. That ship sailed when Tesla moved their wall connectors to lower power versions that will only do 48A. Sorry. Tesla doesn't believe in higher power onboard chargers anymore. They think there is enough Supercharger coverage that people should just use that if they need anything faster than 48A AC charging.

Rocky, you are often right but I hope you’re wrong on this.

Owners of cars with 150 to 200 kWh batteries, like Roadster 2 and tri motor CT don’t want to take 24 hours to fully recharge. I think they will reintroduce a higher charger for those two vehicles. There are a lot of the 80 amp v.2 chargers around - I have two.

A tradesman using the 50 amp receptacle or fast sports car on the track or showing off will need a lot of charging and SC just won’t be convenient at all.

I get frustrated visiting family, arriving late and only having a 14-50 to charger, and I have to leave for work/errands early the next morning without a full charge.

It will be worse with the CT and towing.

 

[nwdiver]

Higher than 48 amps starts to get real impractical for most residential electrical systems...

Not really. 200A is standard now. The bulk of that capacity is usually resistive heating. Replace that with a heat pump and you'll have more than enough capacity for 80A of charging. AND... Tesla already has a system for monitoring energy use... couple a 80A charger with a way to cutback charge rate when other loads increase and you'll have plenty of capacity.

 

[qdeathstar]

Not really. 200A is standard now. The bulk of that capacity is usually resistive heating. Replace that with a heat pump and you'll have more than enough capacity for 80A of charging. AND... Tesla already has a system for monitoring energy use... couple a 80A charger with a way to cutback charge rate when other loads increase and you'll have plenty of capacity.

well, you can only use 160 of the 200.

Also your suggesting it might be possible maybe if people replaced their central heating.

AKA not practical

 

[nwdiver]

well, you can only use 160 of the 200.

Also your suggesting it might be possible maybe if people replaced their central heating.

AKA not practical

??? I've never seen a situation where it wasn't only possible but economic. Resistive heating is absurdly inefficient. And as I said... add in demand control and you're set. Let's say someone has a $600/mo electric bill. Pretty high... yeah? That's on average ~35A.

Are tankless electric water heaters and resistive backup heat also 'not practical'. They also pull ~80A.

 

[qdeathstar]

??? I've never seen a situation where it wasn't only possible but economic. Resistive heating is absurdly inefficient. And as I said... add in demand control and you're set. Let's say someone has a $600/mo electric bill. Pretty high... yeah? That's on average ~35A.

Are tankless electric water heaters and resistive backup heat also 'not practical'. They also pull ~80A.

Tankless do not pull 80 amps. That is they very maximum they will pull, eg, with all the faucets and shower heads on at the same time and with the maximum temperature rise. Also, instantaneous hot water heaters are... well... instantaneous meaning that they all draw whatever they are going to draw for a short period of time, usually not more than a few minutes. A car charger will draw power for several hours.

How well to heat pumps work below 40 degrees? Whose going to pay for the $10,000 upgrade to replace the unit?

with a demand control, what do you plan on shutting off? The heat or the car charger?

 

[nwdiver]

How well to heat pumps work below 40 degrees? Whose going to pay for the $10,000 upgrade to replace the unit?

with a demand control, what do you plan on shutting off? The heat or the car charger?

..... the charge rate of the car is reduced... obviously. Modern heat pumps work fine below 40F. Whoever wants to charge their car at 80A and reduce their electric bill by ~50% will pay for their heat pump... obviously...

 

[Rocky_H]

Owners of cars with 150 to 200 kWh batteries, like Roadster 2 and tri motor CT don’t want to take 24 hours to fully recharge.

Sure. It's already frustrating to a lot of Tesla owners and will continue to frustrate more.

I think they will reintroduce a higher charger for those two vehicles.

I'm certain they will not. They will say "Use Superchargers."

There are a lot of the 80 amp v.2 chargers around - I have two.

Sure, and there are a lot of Samsung Galaxy S6 phones still around too. They are old and orphaned as well.

A tradesman using the 50 amp receptacle or fast sports car on the track or showing off will need a lot of charging and SC just won’t be convenient at all.

I get frustrated visiting family, arriving late and only having a 14-50 to charger, and I have to leave for work/errands early the next morning without a full charge.

It will be worse with the CT and towing.

You can keep bringing up these edge cases, but Tesla is stating very explicitly that they are writing off those edge cases to go for the majority cases. I'm not denying that is going to be frustrating for some people in some situations. It certainly will, but that is what Tesla has decided on.

 

[qdeathstar]

. Modern heat pumps work fine below 40F.

..... the charge rate of the car is reduced... obviously.

so now we aren’t doing a simple relay demand control we are setting up a networked system. How much money will that cost lol.

Modern heat pumps work fine below 40F. Whoever wants to charge their car at 80A and reduce their electric bill by ~50% will pay for their heat pump... obviously...

not really. They aren’t efficient under 40 degrees. And you’re ignoring the main problem.

 

[nwdiver]

so now we aren’t doing a simple relay demand control we are setting up a networked system. How much money will that cost lol.



not really. They aren’t efficient under 40 degrees. And you’re ignoring the main problem.

??? No... not networked.... simple CTs on the main lines. 160A max. HPWC ensures 160A is never exceeded... which is rarely would be. Simple. Do you have any clue how much 160A is? It's A LOT. The peak current draw for my house is maybe ~40A. This gets even easier if someone already has a PW Gateway...

Even when cold a heat pump still uses ~half as much energy as resistive heating. If you had 20kW of resistive heating you now how ~10kW freed up for more EV charging. If you had enough for 11kW before you now have 21kW.... math.

 

[qdeathstar]

??? No... not networked.... simple CTs on the main lines. 160A max. HPWC ensures 160A is never exceeded... which is rarely would be. Simple. Do you have any clue how much 160A is? It's A LOT. The peak current draw for my house is maybe ~40A. This gets even easier if someone already has a PW Gateway...

Even when cold a heat pump still uses ~half as much energy as resistive heating. If you had 20kW of resistive heating you now how ~10kW freed up for more EV charging. If you had enough for 11kW before you now have 21kW.... math.

Are you gonna give everyone 12000 dollars so they can get a heat pump and power management installed so they can charge their car only a little faster?

 

[nwdiver]

Are you gonna give everyone 12000 dollars so they can get a heat pump and power management installed so they can charge their car only a little faster?

???? Why???? I'm just pointing out the obvious fact that if someone wants faster charging and to save electricity there are easy ways to do it... and they would save ~$12k on their electric bill over 10 years. CTs to control a HPWC would add ~$50. You just need something measuring current and telling the HPWC to reduce the charge rate. Exactly what Gen 3 HPWCs do now except instead of another HPWC reporting current it's the CTs.

What exactly is your point? That 80A of charging is impractical for 'most' residential services? That's not true, and couldn't be less true if cost effective measures are taken. I've designed a lot of residential PV systems.... ~95% of the services I've seen could easily support 80A of EV charging and the remaining 5% could if they swapped out their tankless water heater or resistance heating. Granted all these services were 200A or more but the vast majority of new services are 200A.