Faster A/C charging?

[eevee-fan]

Yes, of course I do. They are stupid expensive and too heavy to be portable. I was trying to find a link to that one on EVSEAdapters, but it looks like when they revamped their site and product offerings they stopped carrying it.

Stupid expensive when compared to 1 EVSE. But probably reasonable when compared to 1 EVSE and 1 OBC. And probably cheap when compared to 1 EVSE and 2 or more OBC.

Right now, you can install a 48A EVSE and say you are providing fast AC charging but when you have a 32A OBC EV pull up, you are only getting 32A charging.

Imagine going out with friends and you all bring your own straws. Then buying a Boba Tea and find that your straw is too small. LOL

No such problem with DC charging. LOL

 

[eevee-fan]

240v ac is dangerous, but 240v dc is more dangerous.

Dangerous is dangerous. Isn't that why you have the safety equipment? In your world, we would never have DC charging and have to spend the night every 200 miles on a road trip. Actually, Aptera was going to do that. LOL

BTW, Aptera would be better off to offer DC only charging. They would be able to drop the OBC, which is extra weight for this very efficient vehicle.

 

[ewoodrick]

Yep, my mistake.

I agree, I just haven't heard any grousing by US power companies about this like I have heard (2nd hand) about in Europe.
On the other hand, the discussions in Europe were associated with justifying why they rejected both J-1772 and NACS in favor of their own, incompatible standard.

In the US, the power company doesn't really see the disparity between phases, because residential service is generally single phase, center-tap.

 

[Earl]

OBC

Acronym check please: Does OBC=OnBoard Charger or Off-Board Charger?

 

[Earl]

In the US, the power company doesn't really see the disparity between phases, because residential service is generally single phase, center-tap.

Different problem in US versus Europe.
1) Unbalanced 3-phase is European complaint. How real versus xenophobic it is is probably debatable.
2) As the ever-wise Big Earl pointed out, in the USA:

The same can happen if you put a bunch of loads on one leg of your split-phase home system.

As far as all the safety discussions go: Everything is unsafe if you don't use it properly. If you want to be safe, follow the advice of Grug Crood and stay in a cave:

The Croods (2013) - Plot - IMDb

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[qdeathstar]

Dangerous is dangerous.

Not all dangerous is the same.

It is dangerous to stand on the top rung of both a 4 ft ladder and a 40ft ladder.


There is a difference between converting high voltage AC power to dc in supercharges and running high voltage dc directly into a home.

 

[eevee-fan]

Not all dangerous is the same.

It is dangerous to stand on the top rung of both a 4 ft ladder and a 40ft ladder.


There is a difference between converting high voltage AC power to dc in supercharges and running high voltage dc directly into a home.

Well, dead is dead in my book.

 

[Akikiki]

Acronym check please: Does OBC=OnBoard Charger or Off-Board Charger?

Ahhh, I had not thought of those explanations. I guess, and I guess, I guess wrong, 'cause I thought it meant:
OBC = Overtaken By Comments.

 

[doghousePVD]

Yep, my mistake.

I agree, I just haven't heard any grousing by US power companies about this like I have heard (2nd hand) about in Europe.
On the other hand, the discussions in Europe were associated with justifying why they rejected both J-1772 and NACS in favor of their own, incompatible standard.

The Americas generally use 240 v 60 Hz single/split phase. The rest of the world generally uses 230 V 50 Hz three phase.

 

[Mrbrock]

Given that the new Gen 3 HPWC max out at 48 amps I think we can conclude that the CT will not been able to charge faster than that.

And in the intervening 3.5+ years since this comment, a higher amp version has not been released. Maybe we will see a new 100A version released simultaneously with the CT but that is not the way things look right now.

 

[doghousePVD]

And in the intervening 3.5+ years since this comment, a higher amp version has not been released. Maybe we will see a new 100A version released simultaneously with the CT but that is not the way things look right now.

My hope is the CT and the Roadster will have much higher chargers. No billionaire want to go to Superchargers. Neither billionaires nor truck owners want to wait 17 hours for a full charge on a 200 kWh battery.

Admittedly there are no signals from Tesla that my hope will come true.

 

[Earl]

My hope is the CT and the Roadster will have much higher chargers. No billionaire want to go to Superchargers. Neither billionaires nor truck owners want to wait 17 hours for a full charge on a 200 kWh battery.

I'm pretty sure the billionaires will be able to put in an off-board Charger at whatever power they want. Truck owners too, if charging at home at 20 mph (~160 miles per 8-hr night) is too slow. It isn't hard to imagine a 20 - 30 kW off-board charger being a viable product for ~$2K - 3K, especially now that the NACS format is the known target.
Or, like with the early Model S, one could make modular 48 amp Chargers that could be combined:
1X = 11 KW (~20 mph)
2x = 22 KW (~40 mph_
8x = 88 KW Supercharger (~90 mph)

 

[Mrbrock]

My hope is the CT and the Roadster will have much higher chargers. No billionaire want to go to Superchargers. Neither billionaires nor truck owners want to wait 17 hours for a full charge on a 200 kWh battery.

Admittedly there are no signals from Tesla that my hope will come true.

The average CT buyer is not going to have 100A+ spare electrical capacity for 8+ hours continuously. People struggle for 60A.

I'm pretty sure the billionaires will be able to put in an off-board Charger at whatever power they want. Truck owners too, if charging at home at 20 mph (~160 miles per 8-hr night) is too slow. It isn't hard to imagine a 20 - 30 kW off-board charger being a viable product for ~$2K - 3K, especially now that the NACS format is the known target.
Or, like with the early Model S, one could make modular 48 amp Chargers that could be combined:
1X = 11 KW (~20 mph)
2x = 22 KW (~40 mph_
8x = 88 KW Supercharger (~90 mph)

Agreed, billionaires will have DCFC at home. $50k plus 100A 480 3P service.

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Or they will have someone charge their vehicles for them at the SC.

 

[israndy]

Don't exaggerate, that's not the easiest to install at home, there are others I have mentioned before, like this one:

ChargePoint Express 100 CPE100 - $12500.00 - Smart Charge America

ChargePoint Express 100 CPE100 level 3 electric car DC fast charger generates revenue, branding and sustainability opportunities for businesses and cities.

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They even show a new one that uses 480 or 240 volts input

 

[Earl]

The average CT buyer is not going to have 100A+ spare electrical capacity for 8+ hours continuously. People struggle for 60A.

Agreed, billionaires will have DCFC at home. $50k plus 100A 480 3P service.

ChargePoint Express 250 CPE250 - $52000.00 - Smart Charge America

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Or they will have someone charge their vehicles for them at the SC.

I'm quite sure that the 20 KW on-board charger in the early Model S did not cost $52K (car was only $85K). I'm quite sure we'll see the costs come down if more people start wanting higher charging power at home for their trucks.

 

[israndy]

The onboard chargers were AC chargers, DC chargers are designed for public outdoor spaces and higher than 20kW charging, you can't compare them

 

[Earl]

The onboard chargers were AC chargers, DC chargers are designed for public outdoor spaces and higher than 20kW charging, you can't compare them

True and false. True that onboard chargers are AC chargers. However, any DC charger is just an AC charger that is outside the car. The only difference is, sometimes, the size.

They take AC from the grid and convert them to a DC voltage and current at levels that the battery wants.

The first Superchargers were just a stack of about 8 onboard chargers ganged together. The early Model S 20 KW onboard ones were just 2 ganged together (option was 1 or 2 onboard chargers). I'm not sure whether those were just the 85 KW Supercharger prototypes or how far they went into deployment but that was the plan: mass produce 10 KW chargers to bring the cost down and deploy them in whatever quantity was needed.

 

[Mrbrock]

True and false. True that onboard chargers are AC chargers. However, any DC charger is just an AC charger that is outside the car. The only difference is, sometimes, the size.

They take AC from the grid and convert them to a DC voltage and current at levels that the battery wants.

The first Superchargers were just a stack of about 8 onboard chargers ganged together. The early Model S 20 KW onboard ones were just 2 ganged together (option was 1 or 2 onboard chargers). I'm not sure whether those were just the 85 KW Supercharger prototypes or how far they went into deployment but that was the plan: mass produce 10 KW chargers to bring the cost down and deploy them in whatever quantity was needed.

You can have 20x 10kw chargers in your car but you still need an evse capable of delivering 200kw through a household electrical system. That’s 833 amps of 240.

I was not suggesting the onboard chargers were $52k. The comment was billionaires would have DCFC at home. 20kw dc or ac is not fast. I wouldn’t even consider 50kw fast.

 

[eevee-fan]

True and false. True that onboard chargers are AC chargers. However, any DC charger is just an AC charger that is outside the car. The only difference is, sometimes, the size.

They take AC from the grid and convert them to a DC voltage and current at levels that the battery wants.

The first Superchargers were just a stack of about 8 onboard chargers ganged together. The early Model S 20 KW onboard ones were just 2 ganged together (option was 1 or 2 onboard chargers). I'm not sure whether those were just the 85 KW Supercharger prototypes or how far they went into deployment but that was the plan: mass produce 10 KW chargers to bring the cost down and deploy them in whatever quantity was needed.

As EVs and DCFC become more prevalent, I wonder when Tesla would drop the OBC and offer home DC charger. A 10 kW DC Wall Charger would allow the Model 3 MFP to charge at 10 kW instead of 7.68 kW with a 32A EVSE and OBC.

 

[Mrbrock]

As EVs and DCFC become more prevalent, I wonder when Tesla would drop the OBC and offer home DC charger. A 10 kW DC Wall Charger would allow the Model 3 MFP to charge at 10 kW instead of 7.68 kW with a 32A EVSE and OBC.

um, dc charging bypasses the obc so you can do that today.

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Used obcs go for 1500+ and who wants to buy a $4000 charger just to charge your car at home?