Faster the charge, the more damage?

[jakimo]

A colleague went to SEMA, and he was told the super-fast battery charger for the Cobra deteriorates the battery by 4 miles every charge.
Is this true of Tesla? When I have time, should I drop my 32 amp home charging lower (when time permits) to protect battery life? Or at these levels of amps, there's no real issue?
Any thoughts on dropping amps permitted at Supercharging stations?

 

[DanDi58]

The Owner's Manual doesn't specifically say anything about frequent Supercharging and degradation other than this -

It is normal for estimated range to decrease slightly over the first few months before leveling off. Over time, you may see a gradual, but natural, decrease in range at full charge – this depends on factors such as Supercharging regularly or the mileage and age of the Battery. Your Model Y will inform you in the unlikely event a hardware issue is causing excessive Battery or range degradation.

So I would tend to believe that frequent SC usage is more likely to lead to more degradation than not frequently Supercharging. It's certainly implied in the statement above.

 

[arnesto]

I mean, coming out and admitting the dude you linked to spouting nonsense is your friend kinda means you’re probably the ONLY one with a horse in this race, ya?

 

[Mrbrock]

No supercharging until 3600 miles when moving from CA to WA. No option but to SC. Then no SC until 7800 and 8100 miles on trips to Leavenworth and Spokane. Steady range before and steady after. To me, pretty stark evidence that supercharging can speed up range deterioration. Maybe supercharging messes up the BMS and it just needs to be reset to be more accurate but there has been no evidence of that. The last month or so has also been really cold so that is also affecting my 100% calculation currently so I’d imagine it would be around 300 without the cold temps. Currently 12% after 11 months when the fleet average is about 4%.

 

[Apprunner]

Both Bjorn and Kyle have over 50% Supercharging sessions on their Teslas and they didn't really see excessive degradation.
Kyle has over 100k miles and only saw ~11% degradation with over 50% DC fast charging fill ups. Doesn't seem like its much different than the fleet.

 

[OxBrew]

No supercharging until 3600 miles when moving from CA to WA. No option but to SC. Then no SC until 7800 and 8100 miles on trips to Leavenworth and Spokane. Steady range before and steady after. To me, pretty stark evidence that supercharging can speed up range deterioration. Maybe supercharging messes up the BMS and it just needs to be reset to be more accurate but there has been no evidence of that. The last month or so has also been really cold so that is also affecting my 100% calculation currently so I’d imagine it would be around 300 without the cold temps. Currently 12% after 11 months when the fleet average is about 4%.

View attachment 890837

I super charge about once a month, maybe 1.5x per month on average. At least 5k, maybe 7k miles on supercharging, out of 22k total miles in 15 months. (Drive to Seattle from Spokane almost every month, daughter is at school there, and have a couple 1500-2000 mile trips to Oregon Coast, and BC.)

4% degradation so far. I think the BMS getting to see lower SOC's at least monthly helps keep it calibrated.

Also, spending 6-7 months in winter below 35°F, and keeping it plugged in every night, preheating the battery while plugged in every morning all help a lot.

Also: we charge to 50% + 1/2 daily usage typically (so swing from 65 to 35% most days). 100% only morning of long trips.

Usually at 32A at home. (32A is to keep the onboard charger a bit cooler, not for the battery, 48A won't hurt the battery.)

 

[Mrbrock]

I know what other people have experienced, I am just sharing my experience which looks like direct correlation to me.

I will try to let it run down a bit more before my next charge and not charge as high (have been doing the Tesla recommended plug in whenever not driving and charge to 90. I have 40A 240 and home and 24A 120 and 240 at work. I have mainly been using the 120V since it is easier to access but that means long charging times in cold weather so trying to get a full charge from 10-80/90 is not feasible.

 

[Bob2C]

People are acting like these vehicles/batteries are going to last for generations if they treat them right.

By the time any of this is an issue, your vehicle will be a pile of rust or rendered obsolete in some other way.

Don’t worry about it.

Yep.. People need to just drive the car and stop worrying about the battery...

 

[Apprunner]

Someday, I’ll do a capacity test on my battery to prove to my wife that I need to get rid of the car to get my Model 3 Tri-motor…

 

[Mrbrock]

Yep.. People need to just drive the car and stop worrying about the battery...

It’s not so much worrying about the battery long term, it’s being able to use the car as intended when DCFC stations aren’t as ubiquitous here as in other parts of the country. And taking into account cold weather. Normally being able to comfortably do 200+ mile legs in sunny CA is now down to 100 mile legs here and most SC are more than 100 miles apart. Gaining back 10-20 miles of range can be the difference of being able to take a trip or not.

if you only use the car for short daily trips and never long trips, then yes, don’t worry about anything. There’s a reason for buying a 330 mile model y vs a 250 mile id4 or 220 mile mach e.

 

[reefer_bob]

i try to charge as slowly as possible.

As my commute is ~120 miles a day, When I charge at work, i'm 230/30. When I have to charge at home, I'll start it at night during off-peak hours, and set the amperage to finish approximately when I need to leave in the morning.

Little more work? Sure. Does it help? I feel it should.

 

[EVer Hopeful]

They told a me that my early (out of warranty) tire wear was due to always driving. They said the tire life would have been much better if I had done some staying at home.


BTW: I am an Uber/Lyft driver using a Tesla with FSD beta.

 

[Apprunner]

i try to charge as slowly as possible.

As my commute is ~120 miles a day, When I charge at work, i'm 230/30. When I have to charge at home, I'll start it at night during off-peak hours, and set the amperage to finish approximately when I need to leave in the morning.

Little more work? Sure. Does it help? I feel it should.

AC Amperage has no impact on life of battery. Its too slow.

 

[reefer_bob]

AC Amperage has no impact on life of battery. Its too slow.

Are you saying that anything level 2 is too slow to even worry about?

 

[Apprunner]

Are you saying that anything level 2 is too slow to even worry about?

Yes. Nothing to worry about.

 

[JerseyShoreMY]

We baby the battery in our Tesla. When charging at home we use 48A at night when the voltage is highest.. this after charging at 30A for about a year we switched our method. The power savings we found in is the slightly higher pace shorter net charging run time. The home charging rate does not seem to affect battery life as several others have noted here.
Away from home, at Supercharging we prefer not to use super fast 180-250 stations... we usually can hear some firecracker noises in the back of the car when such a rate is used... anyone know if this is cells blowing? If you lost 2-8 cells per super charge session which is how many pops we have heard in our car on average, not long before we expect to see range issues.
Our preference is to charge at slower rates. Slower seems to offer better results & even more benefit when pre-conditioned.
We charge nights only when below 50%. Unless going on a trip we charge up to max 75%. We never set or go above 88% or less than 15%. This is our conditioning envelope.
While we all know the battery will not last forever, one can have a hand in extending the overall life and range experience.

 

[tesluv108]

The Owner's Manual doesn't specifically say anything about frequent Supercharging and degradation other than this -

It is normal for estimated range to decrease slightly over the first few months before leveling off. Over time, you may see a gradual, but natural, decrease in range at full charge – this depends on factors such as Supercharging regularly or the mileage and age of the Battery. Your Model Y will inform you in the unlikely event a hardware issue is causing excessive Battery or range degradation.

So I would tend to believe that frequent SC usage is more likely to lead to more degradation than not frequently Supercharging. It's certainly implied in the statement above.

Aka Tesla doesn’t want you supercharging because they are going to take on a huge warranty expense in accounting. It’s comical they gave it away now they say it’s ruining their batteries. If this wasn’t true then battery gate on the older S models wouldn’t have happened. My old S charged at 18 mph at home now 16. Is that progress 5 years later or just dumb f elon accounting

 

[Apprunner]

We baby the battery in our Tesla. When charging at home we use 48A at night when the voltage is highest.. this after charging at 30A for about a year we switched our method. The power savings we found in is the slightly higher pace shorter net charging run time. The home charging rate does not seem to affect battery life as several others have noted here.
Away from home, at Supercharging we prefer not to use super fast 180-250 stations... we usually can hear some firecracker noises in the back of the car when such a rate is used... anyone know if this is cells blowing? If you lost 2-8 cells per super charge session which is how many pops we have heard in our car on average, not long before we expect to see range issues.
Our preference is to charge at slower rates. Slower seems to offer better results & even more benefit when pre-conditioned.
We charge nights only when below 50%. Unless going on a trip we charge up to max 75%. We never set or go above 88% or less than 15%. This is our conditioning envelope.
While we all know the battery will not last forever, one can have a hand in extending the overall life and range experience.

I’ve never heard any pops charging at V3 Superchargers which I’ve done numerous times. I doubt you lose any cells Supercharging.

 

[Bob2C]

We baby the battery in our Tesla. When charging at home we use 48A at night when the voltage is highest.. this after charging at 30A for about a year we switched our method. The power savings we found in is the slightly higher pace shorter net charging run time. The home charging rate does not seem to affect battery life as several others have noted here.
Away from home, at Supercharging we prefer not to use super fast 180-250 stations... we usually can hear some firecracker noises in the back of the car when such a rate is used... anyone know if this is cells blowing? If you lost 2-8 cells per super charge session which is how many pops we have heard in our car on average, not long before we expect to see range issues.
Our preference is to charge at slower rates. Slower seems to offer better results & even more benefit when pre-conditioned.
We charge nights only when below 50%. Unless going on a trip we charge up to max 75%. We never set or go above 88% or less than 15%. This is our conditioning envelope.
While we all know the battery will not last forever, one can have a hand in extending the overall life and range experience.

Thermal expansion while supercharging.. Nothing to worry about. Tesla does a good job with battery management while supercharging

 

[DanDi58]

Aka Tesla doesn’t want you supercharging because they are going to take on a huge warranty expense in accounting. It’s comical they gave it away now they say it’s ruining their batteries. If this wasn’t true then battery gate on the older S models wouldn’t have happened. My old S charged at 18 mph at home now 16. Is that progress 5 years later or just dumb f elon accounting

Sounds to me more like lessons learned being applied now, vs some evil plot to destroy the early cars batteries....