Federal EV coming this budget 2019

[Buggle]

Once people sit and drive in a Tesla, they want a Tesla - even if they don't say it in public. It's just the hip and cool toy!

You know I think there's a fair amount of truth in that. I think a bit part of what prevents ppl from taking the leap is psychological -- they don't want to be seen as sticking out and doing something different, they're constantly worried what others think, and don't want to make the transition till the image has been fully validated by Hypebeast or Drake or something.

I've distinctly noticed jealousy in two of my coworkers since getting my M3, and they both make enough money, and I wouldn't generally classify either of them as overly jealous or insecure. But this car makes them that way, I've found it a bit odd...leads me to think they really want it, but are afraid of judgement.

 

[Jctin]

You know I think there's a fair amount of truth in that. I think a bit part of what prevents ppl from taking the leap is psychological -- they don't want to be seen as sticking out and doing something different, they're constantly worried what others think, and don't want to make the transition till the image has been fully validated by Hypebeast or Drake or something.

I've distinctly noticed jealousy in two of my coworkers since getting my M3, and they both make enough money, and I wouldn't generally classify either of them as overly jealous or insecure. But this car makes them that way, I've found it a bit odd...leads me to think they really want it, but are afraid of judgement.

Buck a beer said, we are all millionaires, driving tesla

 

[Tony_YYZ]

You know I think there's a fair amount of truth in that. I think a bit part of what prevents ppl from taking the leap is psychological -- they don't want to be seen as sticking out and doing something different, they're constantly worried what others think, and don't want to make the transition till the image has been fully validated by Hypebeast or Drake or something.

I've distinctly noticed jealousy in two of my coworkers since getting my M3, and they both make enough money, and I wouldn't generally classify either of them as overly jealous or insecure. But this car makes them that way, I've found it a bit odd...leads me to think they really want it, but are afraid of judgement.

Everyone just assumes the car costs like 100k+. There are people in my office driving high end Range Rover's, x63 series Mercedes', loaded 5 Series', etc but I often get looked at like I have the most expensive car. And how could I buy such a thing being a non-manager?!?!

People tend to just live in ignorance a lot. I paid less than most of those cars. And since I don't change cars as often as even the folks who drive cheaper cars, I basically see myself as averaging out.

 

[dj_gon]

You know I think there's a fair amount of truth in that. I think a bit part of what prevents ppl from taking the leap is psychological -- they don't want to be seen as sticking out and doing something different, they're constantly worried what others think, and don't want to make the transition till the image has been fully validated by Hypebeast or Drake or something.

I've distinctly noticed jealousy in two of my coworkers since getting my M3, and they both make enough money, and I wouldn't generally classify either of them as overly jealous or insecure. But this car makes them that way, I've found it a bit odd...leads me to think they really want it, but are afraid of judgement.

Yes, most people still think even the model 3 costs ALOT of $ like the S and X.

However, let's be honest, we like Tesla also because it looks really cool! Merely caring about the environment wouldn't make you buy a Tesla...

 

[toolioiep]

Incentives shouldn't discriminate. If it has a battery of X sizes, it's good. A 100K car in taxes still pays for the rebate. The whole point is to encourage people to switch fossil fuel vehicle to cleaner EVs. A model X replacing a Suburban is a win.

While I agree with the notion - the optics on it from a general point of view are terrible.

I can speak from experience - I was fortunate enough to take advantage of the $14k rebate on my 2017 Model S. I can't count the number of conversations I had about the car that didn't involve a snide comment about the rebate relative to the value of the car itself.

A co-worker bought a Volt and received the rebate and was lauded as shrewd for getting such a great deal. I was constantly criticized for screwing the tax payer to get a break on an expensive toy. Frequent comments included "if you can afford a car that expensive you don't need a rebate" and "the rich get richer at the expense of the little guy".

There was no arguing with these people - and I think that the perception was wide-spread at the time (certainly enough to force the Liberals to amend the program). Unfortunately, as much as the average person will preach environmental benefits, their sense of personal benefit/loss tends to overcome rational thinking. As such, any incentive will have to have a purchase price cap associated with it to be accepted by the general voting public (especially something intro'd by a Liberal government who have built their mandate on supporting the middle class at the expense of higher income earners).

 

[lukex4]

Anyone know whether the Ontario and BC rebates were based on order date or delivery date when they were introduced? I'm planning on ordering a Model 3 this weekend before the price increase, and so I'm wondering if I might have to cancel and reorder after the budget to get the rebate.

Same here. I've an order for a LR RWD since 03/03 but still no VIN or any contact from Tesla. I wonder if I would still be eligible or if I need to cancel my order...

 

[lukex4]

If true, $5k is actually not bad. Is this on top of provincial incentives? Strange that no other news outlets picked this up.

That's what I asked Steven Guilbault (co-Chair of the Climate Council who made that recommandation) and his answer was it's the wish of the council.
steven guilbeault on Twitter

@lukeqc
Et qu'en est-il du rabais actuel du Québec? Est-ce qu'ils seront complémentaires?

@s_guilbeault
C'est le souhait du Comité, oui.

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

Yes, most people still think even the model 3 costs ALOT of $ like the S and X.

However, let's be honest, we like Tesla also because it looks really cool! Merely caring about the environment wouldn't make you buy a Tesla...

A number of factors sold me on the Model 3. All branding aside, the product promised a somewhat affordable, cool, futurist car that drives itself. That sold me as I commute 120kms a day (yay GTA housing costs) and a 14K incentive to boot! If VW, Honda, Toyota had such a product, maybe I'd be driving a Honda like I've always had (Accord, Civic, Civic).

Being green was a bonus point to help me justify spending that much on transportation. More bonus points: safest car ever built, low cost of operation, constant software improvements, don't have to smell gasoline twice a week.

Many of the above would apply to the general population. But the stickler is going to be the upfront capital cost. Incentives are needed to make EVs more competitive until economy of scale levels them to the cost of ICEVs.

Tesla's success is being the market leader. Lets hope they'll continue to lead the EV revolution they set out to do a decade ago with many more exciting products

 

[Ludatik]

That's what I asked Steven Guilbault (co-Chair of the Climate Council who made that recommandation) and his answer was it's the wish of the council.
steven guilbeault on Twitter

Too bad buck-a-beer premier has his head buried in the sand. Potentially good news for other provinces though.

 

[Applemann01]

As a taxpayer I'd support a rebate that's in line with how Quebec modeled their rebate. $75k cap for full 5k rebate. The goal is to get more people into the seat of an EV and most consumers who need the rebate to make the transition will be on the lower end price models.

If you can afford a P100D you don't need our tax dollars to subsidize your purchase or influence your change to EV. The family making the choice to spend a bit more on a EV over an ICE though, that's where your rebate can make an impact and get the biggest return on investment for the public funds that are being spent.

 

[lukex4]

If you can afford a P100D you don't need our tax dollars to subsidize your purchase or influence your change to EV.

Yes but at the same time you still give 5000-8000$ to a millionnaire if he buys a Model 3. So what's the difference?

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

If you can afford a P100D you don't need our tax dollars to subsidize your purchase or influence your change to EV. The family making the choice to spend a bit more on a EV over an ICE though, that's where your rebate can make an impact and get the biggest return on investment for the public funds that are being spent.

That's a double edged sword. What if the 14K rebate was needed for a family to afford their dream vehicle the X? If a family who's able to generate that amount of personal wealth, chances are they're running successful businesses that employ many other people. I don't see why they shouldn't get the rebate like everyone else.

 

[dwharrison]

That's a double edged sword. What if the 14K rebate was needed for a family to afford their dream vehicle the X? If a family who's able to generate that amount of personal wealth, chances are they're running successful businesses that employ many other people. I don't see why they shouldn't get the rebate like everyone else.

Well, we know what actually happened. That hypothetical Model X-loving family that was running a business resulted in enough of a political dislike for the rebate that the PCs cancelled it the very first opportunity they could, and NO ONE got the rebate as a result.

That's just the reality we're in. The public is supportive of EV rebates, but not ultra-large rebates given to people who are viewed as wealthy. No politically viable rebate can ignore that.

I'll be happy with a $5k rebate on cars up to $75k, particularly if it's not means-tested.

 

[lukex4]

That's a double edged sword. What if the 14K rebate was needed for a family to afford their dream vehicle the X? If a family who's able to generate that amount of personal wealth, chances are they're running successful businesses that employ many other people. I don't see why they shouldn't get the rebate like everyone else.

Yes and also I think the most important is how much CO2 emission are we preventing by someone switching to an EV? For sure it's nice that someone is replacing their Yaris/Corolla with a Bolt/Model 3 but really I think there's even more "value" into someone replacing their big SUV with a Model X.

I don't care if the person is rich or not, the most important is to fight against global warming!

 

[dwharrison]

Yes and also I think the most important is how much CO2 emission are we preventing by someone switching to an EV? For sure it's nice that someone is replacing their Yaris/Corolla with a Bolt/Model 3 but really I think there's even more "value" into someone replacing their big SUV with a Model X.

Hopefully we're moving into an era where it will be socially unacceptable for that person to even own a big gas SUV at all.

We're absolutely not there yet, given Premier Buck-a-Beer is also Premier Escalade.

 

[Techniques]

Everyone just assumes the car costs like 100k+. There are people in my office driving high end Range Rover's, x63 series Mercedes', loaded 5 Series', etc but I often get looked at like I have the most expensive car. And how could I buy such a thing being a non-manager?!?!

People tend to just live in ignorance a lot. I paid less than most of those cars. And since I don't change cars as often as even the folks who drive cheaper cars, I basically see myself as averaging out.

Been there...had a simpleton at my work make a comment to me "Wonder how our CEO feels that they have a BMW and you have a better car?". My response, "They earn more than double my salary...i'm sure if they wanted a Tesla they could get one." But I wondered to myself since you thought of the question, how much does it actually bother YOU that I drive a Tesla?

Can't please everyone, and honestly I don't do and buy things to please anyone but me.

 

[lukex4]

That's just the reality we're in. The public is supportive of EV rebates, but not ultra-large rebates given to people who are viewed as wealthy. No politically viable rebate can ignore that.

I'll be happy with a $5k rebate on cars up to $75k, particularly if it's not means-tested.

I agree. Better a smaller rebate that doesn't provoke a political backslash than no rebate at all.

Hopefully we're moving into an era where it will be socially unacceptable for that person to even own a big gas SUV at all.

I've no doubt we'll get there. Either that or just owning an ICE will become an inconvenience at some point when there's less and less gas station.
What Will The End Of Gasoline Cars Look Like? | CleanTechnica

Once gas stations start getting pinched from a shifting car market, they will become harder and harder to find. As they become harder and harder to find, more people will despise the inconvenience of going to a gas station and will switch to EVs. It’ll be a beautiful feedback loop.

 

[RiverBrick]

If a rebate or tax credit on EVs is part of the budget that will be announced Tuesday, when will the program go into effect?

 

[dwharrison]

If a rebate or tax credit on EVs is part of the budget that will be announced Tuesday, when will the program go into effect?

We simply don't know at this point.

If you want a bit of speculation: My guess is that, as you suggest, they'll do this as a tax credit within the income tax system. That'll give them until next year to get the processing mechanisms in place, since we won't be able to apply until the 2019 tax forms are accepted.

If they do it that way, there's no particular reason why they couldn't do this retroactive to January 1, but there's no guarantee it wouldn't be as of Tuesday or some other arbitrary date. I doubt they'll delay it for long, because there's always the chance the next government cancels it, and a late start date could mean it doesn't come into affect at all.

Finally, if it IS an income tax thing, I suspect they'll do it based on delivery/registration dates, because that will just let you submit delivery paperwork plus a copy of the registration paperwork. Doing it based on order dates would leave them short of "official" trustworthy paperwork they could base it on.

But who really knows?

 

[RiverBrick]

I doubt they'll delay it for long, because there's always the chance the next government cancels it, and a late start date could mean it doesn't come into affect at all.

If they announce a program with a delay, people will wait to buy. Killing EV sales in the short-term would not be a good result, so I hope the program goes into effect immediately.

I already know someone who was considering ordering a Tesla before the prices rise Monday who is now wondering if he should wait until Tuesday's announcement.