Firmware 1.34.3 issues

[JES2]

JES2, as long as the feed-in tariff when you export power during Peak periods is at the same rate as you use grid power at that time, it shouldn't matter what Tesla is doing to satisfy the CA SGIP mandate. Say you hit Peak and you start exporting solar power while running off the battery. At some point you will likely hit the Reserve level and the battery will peter out during Peak and you will start using grid power. But a lot of that grid power will be simply a turn-around of what you had just fed into it during Peak, which means your net cost is zero compared to if the solar were to be, instead, helping you feed the house along with the battery. So, no harm done.

Where it gets messed up is if your feed-in tariff is at a discount compared to what you pay from the grid operator at that time. If you pay, for example $0.35 a kWh during Peak yet they accept your input at $0.30 a kWh, then you're getting the short end of the stick here.

Explain your set-up to me. When does your grid operator describe Peak periods? Shouldn't you be using Advanced Cost Savings?

The plan in Texas that I am on does not compensate me for sending power to the grid. No feed in tariff. The plan is pretty basic. I pay $0.23 per kwh from 6 am to 8 pm. After 8 pm until 6 am, the energy is completely free, regardless of amount.

 

[miimura]

The plan in Texas that I am on does not compensate me for sending power to the grid. No feed in tariff. The plan is pretty basic. I pay $0.23 per kwh from 6 am to 8 pm. After 8 pm until 6 am, the energy is completely free, regardless of amount.

So simple. The strategy should be zero discharge during off-peak and Self-Powered from 6am-8pm. Yet, Tesla doesn't have a configuration that can follow these simple rules. Sad.

 

[BJReplay]

So simple. The strategy should be zero discharge during off-peak and Self-Powered from 6am-8pm.

Even better, always charge to 100% after 8pm, then standby until 6am, then self consumption. This would optimise the likelihood that you'll have enough energy to see you through to 8pm each night.

You could script this with a switch to backup only at 8pm, and self consumption at 6am.

 

[miimura]

Even better, always charge to 100% after 8pm, then standby until 6am, then self consumption. This would optimise the likelihood that you'll have enough energy to see you through to 8pm each night.

You could script this with a switch to backup only at 8pm, and self consumption at 6am.

You can only charge from solar in the USA unless Storm Watch is activated.

 

[BJReplay]

You can only charge from solar in the USA unless Storm Watch is activated.

Not trying to start a debate here - I am guessing this has to do with eligibility for some sort of tax rebate - but it does not make sense in Texas where there is so much overnight wind energy that it would make sense to store it and use it during the day instead of gas / coal.

 

[JES2]

Not trying to start a debate here - I am guessing this has to do with eligibility for some sort of tax rebate - but it does not make sense in Texas where there is so much overnight wind energy that it would make sense to store it and use it during the day instead of gas / coal.

Yes, it does have to do with the tax rebate. The utilities forced that into the bill. Why? No clue. We would be paying to charge the battery, so what is their beef? I guess their theory is that this keeps us from charging when their rates are high and the grid is being taxed due to high usage. But, they should have given users an acceptable window in which to charge from the grid. In Texas, it would have been during the nights. That way, we could have helped them during the hot summer days. I think this maneuver was simply done to discourage the use of distributed energy storage.

So simple. The strategy should be zero discharge during off-peak and Self-Powered from 6am-8pm. Yet, Tesla doesn't have a configuration that can follow these simple rules. Sad.

Even worse, the Tesla Power team has remarked to me that they are upset that I am changing the reserve. This is coming from both L2 and their management team. Even though they completely understand why I am doing it, they are saying that they are 'unhappy'. I asked them if I am hurting the system in anyway, and was told 'no, but it is not the way the PW2's were designed to operate.' Not directly, but I got an inference that they might try to dissuade us from making these alterations. Great that they are focused on improving the product.

 

[miimura]

Even worse, the Tesla Power team has remarked to me that they are upset that I am changing the reserve. This is coming from both L2 and their management team. Even though they completely understand why I am doing it, they are saying that they are 'unhappy'. I asked them if I am hurting the system in anyway, and was told 'no, but it is not the way the PW2's were designed to operate.' Not directly, but I got an inference that they might try to dissuade us from making these alterations. Great that they are focused on improving the product.

They should not be surprised or upset that we are using the tools they provide in any and all ways to make the system work the way WE want it to. They could make the system much smarter if they would let us give it more information about our rate structure. For example, how much does Off-Peak Power cost? How much does Peak power cost? How much to you earn for Off-Peak feed in? How much do you earn for Peak feed-in?

It should be obvious that if you have "Free Nights" power that the battery should never discharge during that time.
It should be obvious that if you get no credit for your grid feed-in that the system should do everything it can to avoid drawing from the grid when it costs money and absorb as much of the local generation as it can so you don't give it away for free.

Without the pricing information I mentioned above, the system cannot make intelligent decisions about the "correct" behavior. The most compelling use for Powerwalls is for people who don't have net metering. Why is it that those are the users that receive the least optimal system operation? IMHO, they need to either collect more rate information from the users so that the existing modes can be more intelligent, or they need to provide an "Expert Mode" that allows users to set their own rules for charge and discharge.

 

[NuShrike]

[snip]Why is it that those are the users that receive the least optimal system operation? IMHO, they need to either collect more rate information from the users so that the existing modes can be more intelligent, or they need to provide an "Expert Mode" that allows users to set their own rules for charge and discharge.

We get what we pay for. PWs are the cheapest batteries in price and features.

If L2 and Management are actually upset that we're changing the reserve and other settings, it may mean they modeled battery usage very differently. Such as very predictable, low variability operation, and their warranty goes out the window when it's used more heavily.

 

[miimura]

We get what we pay for. PWs are the cheapest batteries in price and features.

If L2 and Management are actually upset that we're changing the reserve and other settings, it may mean they modeled battery usage very differently. Such as very predictable, low variability operation, and their warranty goes out the window when it's used more heavily.

Actually, if I had more control, I would cycle it less. The only beef I have right now is that it is cycling more than it needs to.
However, my situation is not the focus of the post you quoted. Certainly, people who have feed-in tariffs less than retail consumption would tend to cycle more than me, but I don't know that any specific settings would necessarily cause more cycling than the Self-Powered mode. Depending on your electrical demands and your relative solar and battery capacities, it could fully cycle every day.

 

[bmah]

If it was my company, the only reason to be upset would be that paying customers were forced to jump through these various hoops in order to make the product perform satisfactorily for them.

Bruce.

 

[NinjaVece]

If it was my company, the only reason to be upset would be that paying customers were forced to jump through these various hoops in order to make the product perform satisfactorily for them.

Bruce.

Bmah, its pretty obvious that most of the talent has been siphoned off to improve the Model 3 and the upcoming FSD improvements. Additionally, it looks as if as more PW2s enter the world, there are more circumstances where grids have special cases that require additional programming. This has probably sapped Tesla from focusing on firmware updates that deal with non-critical functions.

I expect through 2019 that issues will be solved for PW2 as to convenience and increased functionality. I'm still having issue with the fact that it loses my password on the WiFi'd side of the PW2. My Tesla app works fine but accessing the PW2 via the IP address on my router yields a Power Flow diagram just fine - but my password to control WiFi logins (via Network) and see a total summary of functions (via Summary) gets lost very quickly. This is a bug that has haunted me (and Tech Support) for almost 6 months and many firmware revisions.

But, overall, the product does what I want it to do (except for firmware 1.34.2 - as you likely well know) so while I push, I also know they're probably running as fast as they can to improve the system...

 

[gkennedy]

JES2, Tesla PW2 Support has said the following to me: Reserve changes take about an hour to honor. Any other changes take a day to do so. For example, if you change the specs on an Advanced setting, such as changing Cost Savings to Balanced or edit the Weekday / Weekend settings, they will not be honored until the following day. Same with changing to Backup or Self powered mode.

Which means be VERY careful when you go into the CUSTOMIZE section. If you accidentally change a parameter when scrolling down through the options (has happened to me a number of times), you won't know the change has occurred until the NEXT day - at which point, if you change it back the following day THAT doesn't happen till the day after. Which means you are stuck with a goof for a full day if you accidentally change Cost Savings to Balanced (for an example).

Because of this delay and no feedback as to the change you might have accidentally made, I've suggested that Tesla make Backup, Self-powered and Advanced (Balanced and Cost Savings) options in a separate page that requires obvious checkmarks and perhaps an 'Are you sure you want to change this?' message.

Just something to be aware of.

Yes would be nice if the App prompted to Save Changes Y/N - extra step but save some pain

 

[gkennedy]

I have the backup history, But discharge doesnt stop after the period ends, It continues to discharge during "Off Peak" until it reaches reserve level. This was the behavior since 1.32.0 and is still continuing after 1.34.3 update as well..

Yes 1.34.3 is definitely bug ridden in the Cost Saving Mode.

What is happening now is the PW2 is discharging into Off Peak periods. What is even worse is the PW2 is discharging into the same Off Peak period that it charged from. Just sending power into and out the PW2 during the same period incurring round trip losses and leaving less power in reserve for Shoulder and Peak periods.

See screenshot below where the PW2 is charging from midnight to 3am and then discharging from 3am to 7am (in the same off peak period).

Simple rule in Cost Saving mode should be the PW2 will never discharge into an Off Peak period, unless there is a Grid power failure.

 

[JohnRatsey]

What is even worse is the PW2 is discharging into the same Off Peak period that it charged from. Just sending power into and out the PW2 during the same period incurring round trip losses and leaving less power in reserve for Shoulder and Peak periods.

For me, this behavious isn't new. I've seen this problem with previous software versions and have pointed it out to Tesla support.

 

[JES2]

Yes 1.34.3 is definitely bug ridden in the Cost Saving Mode.

What is happening now is the PW2 is discharging into Off Peak periods. What is even worse is the PW2 is discharging into the same Off Peak period that it charged from. Just sending power into and out the PW2 during the same period incurring round trip losses and leaving less power in reserve for Shoulder and Peak periods.

See screenshot below where the PW2 is charging from midnight to 3am and then discharging from 3am to 7am (in the same off peak period).

Simple rule in Cost Saving mode should be the PW2 will never discharge into an Off Peak period, unless there is a Grid power failure.

View attachment 399281

One thing I have found from experimentation is that 10% from where the PW2 is charged beginning the off-peak, to where you reserve for power, seems to be a sweet spot to keep the system from discharging during that time period. Once I hit peak, then I lower the reserve.

Just wish they would have some simple button to keep this discharging from occurring....

 

[NinjaVece]

Yes 1.34.3 is definitely bug ridden in the Cost Saving Mode.

What is happening now is the PW2 is discharging into Off Peak periods. What is even worse is the PW2 is discharging into the same Off Peak period that it charged from. Just sending power into and out the PW2 during the same period incurring round trip losses and leaving less power in reserve for Shoulder and Peak periods.

See screenshot below where the PW2 is charging from midnight to 3am and then discharging from 3am to 7am (in the same off peak period).

Simple rule in Cost Saving mode should be the PW2 will never discharge into an Off Peak period, unless there is a Grid power failure.

View attachment 399281

gkennedy, I have my system in Cost Savings mode and it has NEVER discharged the battery during any time other than Peak periods. Your discharge during off-Peak periods is odd.

However, how are you charging your battery from other than solar? That would preclude charging at midnight - which, of course, would mean you are recharging from the grid...

 

[gkennedy]

gkennedy, I have my system in Cost Savings mode and it has NEVER discharged the battery during any time other than Peak periods. Your discharge during off-Peak periods is odd.

However, how are you charging your battery from other than solar? That would preclude charging at midnight - which, of course, would mean you are recharging from the grid...

Battery also gets partially charged via Off Peak overnight - which is good because it then feeds back into the morning Shoulder period (the period between Off Peak and Peak) before the Solar wakes up.

 

[NinjaVece]

Battery also gets partially charged via Off Peak overnight - which is good because it then feeds back into the morning Shoulder period (the period between Off Peak and Peak) before the Solar wakes up.

That isn't allowed in the US if you are taking the tax credit for the Powerwall. Only solar charging is allowed in that circumstance. However, it would be nice to be able to do so here. Count your blessings in Australia.

 

[PBBear]

What is happening now is the PW2 is discharging into Off Peak periods. What is even worse is the PW2 is discharging into the same Off Peak period that it charged from. Just sending power into and out the PW2 during the same period incurring round trip losses and leaving less power in reserve for Shoulder and Peak periods.

Mine the same - also in Sydney. Runs from grid during offpeak from 10pm until around 1am or so, then spontaneously switches to drawing down the battery - seems to be trying to time the switch to run down to 30% charge by dawn. Sometimes it mis-calculates, reaches under 30% a bit too early, and then charges from the grid to bring it back up to 30% when the sun rises!

gkennedy, I have my system in Cost Savings mode and it has NEVER discharged the battery during any time other than Peak periods. Your discharge during off-Peak periods is odd.

I've also seen comments like this a lot from US-based installs. Seems the same TOU settings might be honoured differently in USA than in Australia.

 

[NuShrike]

I don't see a 1.35.X thread, so I'll just stick my issue here for now.

I'm seeing the PW locally from the LAN go "offline" for a blocks of hours at a time, AND the App shows it as a straight line or phantom "charging" or grid-draw. This is on self-consumption.

Time to reboot the gateway?
: between noon to 8PM
: between 4AM to 8AM