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Fit & Finish Issues Plaguing Model Y
- Thread starter P100DHG.
- Start date
That's the whole point about JD Power not being biased or subjective. All complaints are deemed to be equal. Any attempt to do otherwise could be deemed to be subjective.
In an attempt to discredit the survey, guess someone could blame it on Tesla owners being more picky and/or more prone to complain. But I have not seen any evidence of that. In fact, I think the evidence goes the other way. Plenty of owners right here on this forum are saying the build quality issues are insignificant because they like the other aspects of their Teslas so much.
You nailed it, more likely than not it understates the issues.
My point is that a Tesla may have 500 features while a Dodge Ram pickup has a knob for the heater and a knob for the stereo.
I could complain that my Model 3 doesn't automatically close the garage door .5% of the time or than my phone key fails to work if I have the phone in my back pocket. Nobody with a Ram has these complaints.
And if you want to say a door falling off and someone being unhappy with the font size on the display are equal "defects", then I don't know what to tell you.
So you think Tesla had all these complaints because of all the features they have?
Ok, premium brands (which tend to have more features) generally ranked lower. But at most that explains only a small fraction of the survey results. There were a number of premium brands that ranked above average. If the results were related to the number of features, how is it that Tesla averaged 76% more complaints and problems per car more than Genesis???
On top of that, assuming you are familiar with EV propulsion systems, you know that a Tesla has a far more simple powertrain than any ICE Genesis has ever had, with far less parts for there to be problems with. That's one of the beauties of EV's. With Tesla's subpar build quality, can you imagine how much worse their score would have been if they were selling ICE vehicles?
And please don't put words in my mouth, thank you. I never claimed a door falling off and someone complaining about the the size of a display are of equal concern. That was your example. And curious, how many new vehicle owners are complaining about the doors falling off, irrespective of who the manufacturer is? I would also point out you probably chose a bad example, because when you mention problems with doors, the first vehicle that comes to mind is the MX
My point is that without know what the reported "defects" are, we have no idea what to make of the survey results. I'm not denying that Tesla has delivered sad looking cars - that's abundantly clear. But are they really bottom-of-the-barrel? I'm not so sure of that.So you think Tesla had all these complaints because of all the features they have?
Ok, premium brands (which tend to have more features) generally ranked lower. But at most that explains only a small fraction of the survey results. There were a number of premium brands that ranked above average. If the results were related to the number of features, how is it that Tesla averaged 76% more complaints and problems per car more than Genesis???
On top of that, assuming you are familiar with EV propulsion systems, you know that a Tesla has a far more simple powertrain than any ICE Genesis has ever had, with far less parts for there to be problems with. That's one of the beauties of EV's. With Tesla's subpar build quality, can you imagine how much worse their score would have been if they were selling ICE vehicles?
And please don't put words in my mouth, thank you. I never claimed a door falling off and someone complaining about the the size of a display are of equal concern. That was your example. And curious, how many new vehicle owners are complaining about the doors falling off, irrespective of who the manufacturer is? I would also point out you probably chose a bad example, because when you mention problems with doors, the first vehicle that comes to mind is the MX
My wife's RX450h (with its 88 buttons/knobs) will be somewhat confusing to new drivers, but the operation of the car is not wholly different from most other cars. It's not likely to solicit a huge amount of complaints about the UI. However, at Model 3 or Y is a completely different animal. I can see a great many people complaining about every thing they don't like. How many Model 3 threads were there about the font size of the time-of-day display?
So, without knowing if the JDP results are due to font size complaints or real issues, I'm going to take the results with a grain of salt.
rxlawdude
Active Member
No doubt some of the complaints are for problems many of us would deem to be not very serious.
But why would you suspect Tesla would have a higher proportion of those non serious complaints versus any other manufacturer?
Is the average Tesla owner unusually fussy about their car? I don't see that at all. For example, so many forum members have said they are not really concerned about body panels not fitting correctly so long as the car drives and charges well.
Compare that to the average Porsche owner. They tend to be so fussy that they won't take their cars anywhere near an automatic car wash, and they are back at the dealer for service for the slightest rattle. And the Porsche dealers cater to that level of fussiness. Ask me how I know
.My thought was that the Tesla driving experience is such a sea change compared to what people are used to that it would foster more trivial complaints, especially in the first 90 days. Things like the 15" screen, speedometer not directly in the driver's line of sight, all the settings being buried under menus, auto windshield wipers, no manual glovebox release, etc. You know, all the things we were warned about when the Model 3 came out (which turned out to be no big deal).
It's a shame JDP doesn't want to add more granularity to the results. They would be much more useful. Perhaps they do break it down to their "premium" subscribers.
Actually they do. And here's some insight:
Tesla's cars and SUVs had 250 problems per 100 vehicles, compared with an industry average of 166. The next five worst-scoring brands were Land Rover (228), Audi (225), Volvo (210), Mercedes-Benz (202) and Jaguar (190). In general, luxury brands struggled in the 2020 study in part due to problems with their infotainment systems.
In Tesla's case, though, problems included paint defects, poor fit of body panels, trunks and hoods that were hard to open and close, too much wind noise in the interior, squeaks and rattles, according to J.D. Power's automotive President Doug Betts.
The issues were "primarily a result of factory quality," Betts said in an emailed statement.
Dave Sargent, vice president of automotive quality at J.D. Power, added that "it's important to note that the primary reason for Tesla’s score is not the EV-related aspects of the vehicle – they perform well here."
What does "problems included" mean? Does it mean that most of the problems were these issues or there was one of each? Who knows? If one guy had his roof leak, that now becomes one of the "problems included". JDP's statement really doesn't mean anything. That's why I can't give too much weight to this survey.
I'm certainly not saying Tesla doesn't have problems. We all know they do. And I don't like to be a contrarian, but I know people are seeing these survey results and think the sky is falling. I guess that's fine too, because maybe Tesla needs to learn how to play the game and throw these some ad revenue now and then (or whatever it is JDP subsides on).
Again, if you buy a Dodge Ram pickup, it has a button for the radio and two knobs for the heater. Not a whole lot to go wrong there, especially since that "technology" has existed, unchanged, for the last 50 years.. Obviously, I'm exaggerating, but not by a whole lot, I'm afraid.
LevelHeaded
Member
I’ve had 5-10 issues ranging in severity that were present upon delivery of 3/3 Tesla’s I’ve taken delivery of. But, that didn’t stop me from picking up a MY
You've been trying to blame the number of problems reported on the fact that Teslas have a lot of features. The statements made by the JD Power execs above clearly show that's not true.
What the JD Power execs are quoted as saying mirrors what we have seen all along from us Tesla owners far and wide, that the build quality at the factory is subpar. It's not feature problems that are accounting for Tesla's poor showing in the survey. You don't need exact statistics to realize that. It's obvious you are looking for any shred of evidence to try to discredit the survey.
Not sure why you keep bringing up Dodge Ram pickups (besides the fact that the tech in them has changed radically in the last 20 years, much less than the last 50). The issue is that Tesla owners reported the most problems per vehicle than ALL of the 31 other brands sold, and by a significant margin.
And I totally reject your insinuation that JD Power's results are somehow influenced by ad revenue. Don't shoot the messenger. They are merely reporting what was reported to them by a sizeable group of Tesla buyers. It's clear from Mr. Sargent's comment that JD Power holds no malice against Tesla. You see bias claims like this all the time when someone does not like the results of a particular Consumer Reports or JD Power surveys. Some folks just have trouble accepting the truth.
_OD_
Member
If you want perfect paint don't buy a Tesla. If you want to own a fun, ground breaking vehicle then this car is for you.
I took delivery on Thursday (6/25) and could not be happier. Yes, there are cosmetic defects - only one of which I feel is worth fixing (the speaker grill under the windshield is oddly chewed up). Mechanical and performance is not lacking in any way. Personally I'd rather have a few minor cosmetic issues - I'm going to haul stuff around in it and t's going to get banged up anyway.
The delivery agent said the S/N >12000 were significantly better with the panel gaps. Mine is 18xxx and does have some minor alignment imperfections but not worth addressing.
I stopped to supercharge yesterday and a Model X owner admitted to paying more than twice what I paid for the (better looking) Model Y. The car is an amazing deal.
I took delivery on Thursday (6/25) and could not be happier. Yes, there are cosmetic defects - only one of which I feel is worth fixing (the speaker grill under the windshield is oddly chewed up). Mechanical and performance is not lacking in any way. Personally I'd rather have a few minor cosmetic issues - I'm going to haul stuff around in it and t's going to get banged up anyway.
The delivery agent said the S/N >12000 were significantly better with the panel gaps. Mine is 18xxx and does have some minor alignment imperfections but not worth addressing.
I stopped to supercharge yesterday and a Model X owner admitted to paying more than twice what I paid for the (better looking) Model Y. The car is an amazing deal.
So, I went back and re-read this whole thread to see what I must be missing and I came across this quote:
The issues were "primarily a result of factory quality," Betts said in an emailed statement.
I clearly missed that statement, so I'll concede your point. We both agree Tesla needs to improve and I have never said anything different.
I will, however, continue to maintain that Tesla offers the most technologically advanced cars on the market and, as such, have more features and more functionality that can go wrong (or be displeasing to the user). If Tesla's infotainment system has 100 functions and one of them goes wrong (or is displeasing to the user), that is a 1% "defect" rate. Meanwhile, a base Corolla's infotainment system has 10 features. If one of those is considered a "defect", that's 10% "defect" rate.
Nobody in their right mind would ever say 10% is equal to 1%, would they? Except for JD Power. In this case, according the their survey, both defect rates are identical.
It's certainly your right not to be concerned about having a subpar paint job. But individual experience is merely anecdotal when compared to a survey of a large number of buyers who are finding the build quality unacceptable.
Why do we have to continue to put up with the amateurish build quality? All Elon needs to do is hire a few unemployed Ford and GM engineers to show his people how to property oiperate a body shop in an assembly plant. This level of build quality reminds me of Chrysler literally pushing cars out the factory doors in the 70's and Yugos having the build quality of a car assembled at gunpoint.
I assume you would prefer your Tesla to have a better paint job if it was available at no extra cost, correct?
_OD_
Member
Of course it would be better if my car had flawless paint but really I'm glad they are focusing their efforts on making awesomely fun, fast, practical, environmentally friendly vehicles. Today I listed my Porsche Cayenne S for sale. Sure, the paint is great but the car is still a POS. I just think it's missing the big picture to worry too much about this issue.
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You are missing the point.
There's no reason Elon can't fix the build quality problems without diminishing the things we like about our Teslas.
- Fix most of the quality problems
- Build a great car
- Make the end of quarter numbers
Choose two.
_OD_
Member
It's absolutely true that right now they are in a mad rush to make deliveries. The Tesla delivery agent even acknowledged the S&P index profitability requirement was an end of quarter driver. However bad paint is not exactly a new thing. The guy who does my XPEL PPF wraps said he once found a fly under the clearcoat of a Tesla
