For AWD owners wanting a P3D-

[jebinc]

No, that's not how it works. Engineering design expects failures will happen, warranty claims will happen. To design with an expectation of zero failures is not only not particularly realistic, it also ignores costs so unless you and your customers have an unlimited budget that is just bad engineering.

As an engineer, I think you are both right. No design will be based on a "zero failure" requirement, however there is a factor of safety "factor," based one desired longevity/design life. It might be 1.2, 1.5, or whatever Telsa's reliability targets/goals are.

 

[MagnusMako]

I recall way back in the early days of model 3 development that there were people with inside information who claimed they had prototypes hitting well under 3 seconds in testing and that they burned up many motors in that testing as well. I surely imagine they have built in some buffer for even the P3D after learning what the hard limits were and the fact they planned to have producing over half a million a year globally. But who knows, that's just what I've heard.

With that said, it appears some people are chatting up customer service and getting information that suggest's again that it is just a software unlock.

And also this. I'm assuming by what makes performance hardware safe they mean the brakes/tires/suspension.

 

[MountainJedi]

No, that's not how it works. Engineering design expects failures will happen, warranty claims will happen. To design with an expectation of zero failures is not only not particularly realistic, it also ignores costs so unless you and your customers have an unlimited budget that is just bad engineering.

Further, the Performance variant was effectively an afterthought. It wasn't laid out until the D was basically done.

I'm not saying it was designed for zero failures and I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. And the fact is that even if it was, they'd still have to record warranty expense and liability (I'm an accountant so I'm just looking at it from that side of things). I'm merely stating that I believe the proportion of potential warranty claims related to drive unit failures is relatively small.

My whole point in this is that a software unlock is effectively 100% profit for Tesla. Someone claimed that wasn't accurate because of potential warranty claims. I don't believe that liability would be a very large portion of the upgrade price.

 

[MountainJedi]

I recall way back in the early days of model 3 development that there were people with inside information who claimed they had prototypes hitting well under 3 seconds in testing and that they burned up many motors in that testing as well. I surely imagine they have built in some buffer for even the P3D after learning what the hard limits were and the fact they planned to have producing over half a million a year globally. But who knows, that's just what I've heard.

With that said, it appears some people are chatting up customer service and getting information that suggest's again that it is just a software unlock.

View attachment 431748

And also this. I'm assuming by what makes performance hardware safe they mean the brakes/tires/suspension.

View attachment 431749

So two things. First, I think the speed with which they put Ps with 18" rims at service centers strongly suggests they are just flashing software in inventory LR AWDs.

Second, the same sales adviser I'm working with now, quoted the safety line, specifically about the brakes, two months ago as to why the P wasn't offered without the PUP. She now sold two of them yesterday and confirmed it is without the PUP. So it's a load of BS.

 

[MagnusMako]

Definitely. I'm pretty sure it's just a sales tactic to upsell people on the PUP.

 

[boriszima]

It is possible that the latest model 3 AWD can do performance or just regular, depending what end costumer wants. This is why we see many say software update to unlock faster acceleration. This is likely not try for earlier AWD builds, even though many say the same part number must mean same part. My guess we will find out in couple of months or less, Elon should have by now be able to answer.

 

[jebinc]

It is possible that the latest model 3 AWD can do performance or just regular, depending what end costumer wants. This is why we see many say software update to unlock faster acceleration. This is likely not try for earlier AWD builds, even though many say the same part number must mean same part. My guess we will find out in couple of months or less, Elon should have by now be able to answer.

Agreed, it will be a couple of months, more likely than not - Perhaps an Xmas present? Right know, Elon is focused on numbers and how to sell the price reductions to those who purchased their cars right before the price reduction!

 

[Knightshade]

It is possible that the latest model 3 AWD can do performance or just regular, depending what end costumer wants. This is why we see many say software update to unlock faster acceleration. This is likely not try for earlier AWD builds, even though many say the same part number must mean same part.

Why?

Besides the fact the PN is the same in the P and AWD for "earlier builds" there's the fact we have a number of members who got their AWD-at-delivery car software flashed to a P when they pointed out they'd really ordered a P not an AWD, back during the "earlier builds" period when the P3D- originally was a thing.

Literally every single bit of actual evidence available then, and now, says the AWD and P3D- are physically the same car and always have been from the start.

 

[jebinc]

Well they have not said no (yet) so I just submitted a similar service request.

@cypho

I got my first "reply" - This one from my SC delivery specialist.....

"Hi John, I unfortunately don’t have an answer on this right now, but I don’t believe that is something we are able to do. I believe the “sleeper” Performance Model 3s we are offering have an upgraded drive inverter from the normal AWD which we are not able to retrofit. I will definitely let you know if I hear something different!"

Of course, I pointed him to this forum and told him I would make it worth his while if he could "find away"!

 

[SammichLover]

I'm merely stating that I believe the proportion of potential warranty claims related to drive unit failures is relatively small.

You believe this based on what data?

I don't believe that liability would be a very large portion of the upgrade price.

Again, based on what data?

This assertion by you?

There is nothing to suggest the the acceleration/power curve on a P is more taxing on the hardware than the AWD.

Which, again, is fundamentally incorrect. Putting 30% more power through a drivetrain is more taxing, by definition. The question is only how much damage the extra strain causes and how much that impacts the warranty claim numbers.

 

[MountainJedi]

You believe this based on what data?

Never said I had any data. Just like you don't have data that the P acceleration/power raises the risk of warranty claims or unit failures.

It's just a theory based on anecdotal evidence and Tesla's pricing actions and offerings. I still believe the margin is high on a AWD to P- upgrade or else they wouldn't have brought it back. Feel free to disagree with me, but whatever.

 

[Knightshade]

You believe this based on what data?



Again, based on what data?

To be fair- I think the fact Tesla found after a year+ of data on the "new" motor design they could actually uncork more power for free, including on the P, without taking any cost hits for warranty, supports the idea the going AWD to P isn't a significant warranty concern.

 

[SammichLover]

Never said I had any data.

So then you're just talking out your butt. In an ill-informed manner, no less.

Got it.

 

[MountainJedi]

So then you're just talking out your butt. In an ill-informed manner, no less.

Got it.

Yep, just like you and pretty much everyone else on this forum. We're all making inferences and guesstimates based on what we observe. Again, I didn't see you cite your data that shows an increase in warranty costs related to performance models. Did I miss that somewhere?

 

[zyzz]

if a stranger on the internet told you for sure theyre doing the performance upgrade software for awd owners - would you believe him and let the bickering subside, instead, shifting our focus on getting more info on when and how this will happen.

i may get some more info next week but this thread is kiiiiiilling me

 

[SammichLover]

Yep, just like you and pretty much everyone else on this forum. We're all making inferences and guesstimates based on what we observe. Again, I didn't see you cite your data that shows an increase in warranty costs related to performance models. Did I miss that somewhere?

Incorrect.

We have the 100% the solid data that there is more stress. More power put through is more stress. We don't know one way or the other how that impacts the warranty claims, but we do know it is there.

 

[MountainJedi]

Incorrect.

We have the 100% the solid data that there is more stress. More power put through is more stress.

Again I never said there wasn't more stress. That was quite literally never part of the discussion.

Look, I guess you want me to say you're right. So, you're right, I'm wrong. There's clearly a HUGE warranty liability related to the performance acceleration.

Have a good one man.

 

[SammichLover]

Again I never said there wasn't more stress.

BWAHAHA

"There is nothing to suggest the the acceleration/power curve on a P is more taxing on the hardware than the AWD." - you, quoted back to you for at least the third time now

 

[diggity]

Jesus who cares. Can we keep this thread on track with info and not the two of you hashing it out?

 

[jebinc]

@cypho

I got my first "reply" - This one from my SC delivery specialist.....

"Hi John, I unfortunately don’t have an answer on this right now, but I don’t believe that is something we are able to do. I believe the “sleeper” Performance Model 3s we are offering have an upgraded drive inverter from the normal AWD which we are not able to retrofit. I will definitely let you know if I hear something different!"

Of course, I pointed him to this forum and told him I would make it worth his while if he could "find away"!

And now I just received a reply to my reply. They are getting better and more promising.

“I haven’t heard anything to that end, though I do know that we’ve gotten some cars that are the non-upgrade package performance cars which are essentially AWD with a performance badge and quicker 0-60. I’ll let you know if I find out it’s an available upgrade!”