yerEVan
Active Member
If that person has a P3D- and they could not go above 145 then I guess it’s the case.
I did read that 32.1 allows you to choose a wheel setting. I wonder if that will allow P3D- to goes 162 if we choose the right wheel size.
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For AWD owners wanting a P3D-
- Thread starter Urbancowboy
- Start date
I did read that 32.1 allows you to choose a wheel setting. I wonder if that will allow P3D- to goes 162 if we choose the right wheel size.
The EU registered maximum is a 10KW difference between the AWD and Performance.
The AWD can officially deliver a total of 469 hp(I) according to the registrations (hint: probably with the 20% update some special owners have installed).
A normal AWD will currently measure around 385-390 hp(I) on dynos, so the numbers align quite well actually (e.g. a 20% / 60KW difference between current output and the registered one).
Since it's clearly the same motor (as Elon mentioned, they just select/bin the best of the batch for Performance) then I read this as the performance one can deliver around ~10KW / 3-5% more power "continuously" and are better suited for real "punishment" using track mode.
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If it's true that due to binning us AWD non-P owners won't ever be able to get a full performance unlock due to binned motors, how about these options:
1) Get the performance software installed for a fee, but at the loss of the motor warranty. This is exactly what happens when you install an ECU tune on an ICE car. Many people might be up for risking this, especially those who don't track their cars.
2) Tesla to offer a full rear motor swap to get one of the binned performance motors installed. It seems like that's the only difference between AWD and performance according to Tesla. How much do people think this should cost?
1) Get the performance software installed for a fee, but at the loss of the motor warranty. This is exactly what happens when you install an ECU tune on an ICE car. Many people might be up for risking this, especially those who don't track their cars.
2) Tesla to offer a full rear motor swap to get one of the binned performance motors installed. It seems like that's the only difference between AWD and performance according to Tesla. How much do people think this should cost?
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
The post is from a week ago. The claimed run to 145 mph is from before Tesla released the software upgrade to 162 mph. You can't tell the difference? The only thing that's getting ridiculous is your inability to accept the fact that all North American Performance Model 3's have a top speed limited to 162 mph, regardless of whether they have the spoiler installed or not.
Are you just here to try to impinge Tesla's reputation and disrupt Tesla forums by spreading misinformation?
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StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
This doesn't solve the problem of the black eye that Tesla would get if they started having motor failures. And the fact that it's illegal in most jurisdictions for a manufacturer to NOT offer a warranty with their cars.
By thinking only the motor is involved in the binning process is to make the mistake of treating a Model 3 like an ICE. The motor and motor controller are tested as a drive unit. A motor without a controller can make exactly 0 horsepower and it's the particular output of the motor controller that largely determines whether a particular drive unit is suitable for more current. The Silicon Carbide MOSFETs are in the motor controller and are likely the limiting factor as to how much current a particular drive unit can handle.
None of this is cheap which takes us back to my original advice, if you want Performance levels of power, buy a Performance Model 3.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
No. Wheel size has nothing to do with the top speed. It's rpm limited to 162 mph on all North American Performance models regardless of which wheel size you have.
yerEVan
Active Member
I’m basing it on the quote from Tesla forum person that has a stealth P3D and couldn’t go above 145.
But honestly I still find it hard to believe they would give me an update that says I have 162, but still limit it.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
As previously noted, that was before Tesla increased the top speed to 162 mph and added the Track Mode option.
Tesla wouldn't (and didn't) do that. That software update is what unlocked the 162 mph top speed. The P3D- with it's Aero wheels will reach that limit considerably faster than the P3D+ without Aero wheels.
yerEVan
Active Member
My apologies if I seem argumentative, but the person from the Tesla forums said he tried it three times since the update to unlock came out. Maybe i read that wrong? All I know is, i have no where to test this theory.
Also, if the P3d+ already had the 162Mph ability, without that update, then i guess that makes this update very specific to the P3D-, making me believe that it is in fact capable.
However, since I don’t have a place to use it, i guess i don’t care so much, yet.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
As Jimi Hendrix famously said once, "You just can't believe everything you see and hear, now can you?"
In other words, Tesla forums are full of misinformation, disparate information and (sometimes) just plain lies. So, if there is an outlier piece of information, it's generally best to discard it. Or perhaps they are from a country where it is speed limited. Or maybe their battery was below 50% SOC.
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Then I guess we're both right and wrong if the update is only for NA cars, because here in Europe we have many cases where people have tried their top speed on Autobahn and maxed out at 145 mph. People have called roadside assistant while in Germany and been told as long as they don't have the spoiler the top speed is limited. We also have cases here in Norway with inventory P3D- where Tesla have communicated only track mode is included, not the top speed and lower tow capability compared to the AWD (500kg vs 910kg). And like I said many times, people got the same notes in their software updates because the car recognizes as a P3D when they push the update. But the configuration file in the car is configured without a spoiler, hence the limiter on the speed.
It's just weird that a P3D+ without spoiler is slower in Europe than a P3D- in NA, but if you say so. I don't want to continue arguing because I know my facts are indeed facts since its been reported by several in my owners club, for Europe anyways.
With apologies ...
“If you like it then you should’ve put a P on it ...”
Seriously, this gets so far down the rabbit hole. As soon as it becomes anything more than flipping a bit, I think it’s a total pipe dream.
Why would they let you build a Franken-P?
If it matters that much to you, sell the AWD while residuals are good, and before Tesla figures out they’re underpricing the P Model right now.
(And this is coming from a guy who does have an AWD....)
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
I didn't say it's slower in Europe, you did. I simply mentioned that I don't know all the odd rules they may or may not have overseas and I took delivery of an N. American P3D, that's all I'm willing to address and they were all upgraded to a top speed of 162 mph regardless of spoiler/no spoiler.
Let's not go starting new rumours or claiming I said things I didn't.
But that's what you're implying, you didnt differentiate between NA and Europe before your previous post. Because I know from many sources that they limit them here without the spoiler. Even in some cases they forget to update the configuration after the spoiler is installed and are still limited, and then have to visit the SC or get mobile service to update the config.
Do you have any proof or sources other than the note from the update? (Focus on this bold part because this is what we're really arguing about, and try to answer it the best you can) Because everyone here got the same note but are still limited. Here is a convo from the mobile tech when they installed the spoiler on a P3D from our owners club:
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
The evidence is that Tesla announced the update applied to all Performance models. I bought a Performance model. They didn't say owners with Performance models that haven't installed the rear spoiler will be limited until they install the spoiler. They didn't say you need the Performance Upgrade Package to get the top speed boost. The tires are rated to 167 mph. My screen showed that I got the top speed boost. And I don't find any of the rumors to the contrary convincing or definitive.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
No, the only thing I implied was that I have no knowledge of cars in other markets or local laws that might cause Tesla to do this. I am familiar enough with US laws to be confident there is nothing that would cause Tesla to limit it on cars without a spoiler. EU laws cover a lot more ground so I'm not willing to speculate what they might do over there.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Sorry if this was already covered...do we know if these folks have 980 or 990 motors? I know they ordered AWD so they SHOULD be 990s...just wondering if this was ever checked. I don’t remember if it was already discussed elsewhere - I may have even asked the question and got an answer previously!
Okay, so nothing other than what have been communicated with the update then. I have shown several examples here that implies the opposite. All the cars are after that update, still limited without the spoiler. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because I'm tired of throwing several examples your way when all you base your facts of are an update note that were sent to all Model 3 Performance models.
jebinc
Well-Known Member
I though it was reported earlier these AWD's were 980 DUs; that way European dealers can reconfigure inventory without having to wait for the next boat... Could be wrong, but that's the thought stuck in my head.
jebinc
Well-Known Member
If the "binning" confirmation (discussed earlier after a TMC member visited the Giga Factory) is indeed true, it appears 990 motors are really just previously referred to as 980 "unbinned" motors that didn't make the cut to be M3P DUs, and became LR AWD DUs only. Meaning, LR AWD cars with 990 coding or "unbinned" 980 motors are one in the same - Tesla just decided in the ~ March 2019 timeframe to go to a part number control system: 980 (post cutover, 980's that qualified for "binning") became the PN for M3P DUs, and 990 coding for LR AWD (these are essentially what was previously (prior to ~March 2019) the 980 motors that didn't qualify to being "binned" 980 motors for M3P's.
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