FROM 2008 Jalopnik: Rumor/News: Tesla WhiteStar RIP? / Musk Pledges to "Eat His Hat"

[stopcrazypp]

(Hope this isn't a repost, as I got logged off and no response when I logged back in for two times, so I had to retype this thing!)
Jalopnik: Tesla WhiteStar RIP?
The post says that it had some insider information about Tesla cutting ties with WhiteStar contractors. I have a feeling it might just be referring to the recent firings instead, because if I remember correctly some of the people working of the WhiteStar were fired. Keeping in mind this is just a rumor, if it is referring to actual contractors and it's true, then that is quite worrying news for the WhiteStar.
"a regular Jalopnik commenter with deep Metro Detroit engineering ties is telling us that the company is laying off contractors and carving "WhiteStar" on a gravestone. Things also look grim for their Rochester Hills Technical Center."
Link:Industry News: Tesla WhiteStar RIP?

Jalopnik: Tesla's Elon Musk Pledges to "Eat His Hat"
Talks about a section in the Jan/Feb issue of the Stanford alumni magazine, and skepticism if Tesla will be profitable.
Here's the section they quoted:
"[Tesla's] brash ambitions make some industry observers scoff. "I wouldn't call it Tesla Motors yet. I would call it the Tesla prototype company," says James Hall, vice president of industry consulting firm AutoPacific, in Southfield, Mich. "My concern is that there are people in charge who don't have a realistic view of the car industry."
Hall estimates Tesla will need 30 to 40 years to turn a profit and $700 million immediately to successfully develop and mass produce a lower-priced model. Traditional automakers typically spend between $500 million and $1 billion to put out a new car--and that's without building a company from scratch first.
Musk calls Hall's thinking generic and con­ventional. "I will eat my hat if we spend anything close to $700 million on our model-2 car," he says."
Link: Industry News: Tesla's Elon Musk Pledges to "Eat His Hat"

Sidenote:
Comments on the WhiteStar post referred to an article at CNET about the recent firings. So I thought it warranted a post. It's from Jan 11 though.
Tesla denies layoffs, but fires 10 percent of staff
Link:Tesla denies layoffs, but fires 10 percent of staff | Green Tech blog - CNET News.com

 

[TEG]

Scary!

 

[BlackbirdHighway]

Back on topic, I don't believe any of this talk in the press about Tesla shutting down anything.

There was even an article in Gizmodo that the entire company was preparing to cease operations completely. That article disappeared, I'm guessing that they got a call from Tesla's lawyers, as that would be very irresposnible and damaging "journalism", and could easily prompt a big fat lawsuit. If buyers started believing that, they would all ask for their money back, and the company really wouldn't survive. Tesla really needs to get some, even just a handful, of actual production vehicles into customers hands in the first quarter of this year.

While I think the Whitestar will survive as a vehicle, the original concept might not survive, and it might become a REEV or something. It might even turn into some sort of partnership deal with another company. Hopefully, if they decide to do anything other than a pure BEV, it will be offered in both REEV and pure BEV forms.

I can easily believe that big autmakers spend about $700 million on a new car development, but that's doesn't mean the Tesla has to. I've worked for startups before, and we've done a better job with 1/10th resources and in half the time compared to the established companies in the field.

There is a lot of baggage that big companies have that makes everything they do take longer and cost more.

 

[Cobos]

And just to continue your thought BlackbirdHighway, isn't that the whole point. Tesla obviously has a disruptive product which isn't quite like all others on the market. But there are plenty of startups that just want to make the same gizmo at a lower price. In some cases they are underestimating the problems, but in many cases they are not. If the big behemoths had the perfect production and development cycle going there wouldn't ever be any new startups now would there?

Cobos

 

[TEG]

If the big behemoths had the perfect production and development cycle going there wouldn't ever be any new startups now would there?

Be careful there! What are the successful startups in the auto biz? Many would say that the landscape is such that only the big old companies are capable of hanging on. Be it customer expectations, massive regulation, or even protective subterfuge from the establishment, it doesn't seem to be an easy road for the newcomers.

It will be sad if Tesla doesn't flourish. They seem to have navigated through so many of the hurdles.

 

[Cobos]

Be careful there! What are the successful startups in the auto biz? Many would say that the landscape is such that only the big old companies are capable of hanging on. Be it customer expectations, massive regulation, or even protective subterfuge from the establishment, it doesn't seem to be an easy road for the newcomers.

It will be sad if Tesla doesn't flourish. They seem to have navigated through so many of the hurdles.

I see that, and I was talking more against the general feeling that a startup can't produce something cheaper or better than an established big company. But I do see that in the car business this has been more or less the case. Though I'm pretty sure Lamborghini dosen't spend as much as almost 1 billion dollars on a new model...

Cobos

 

[TEG]

The airline industry is another entrenched old industry. Once and a while an upstart comes along and achieves success. Virgin airlines for instance. If you don't want to count them since they don't make their own planes, then consider Airbus. They seem to have taken on Boeing, but the backing of Airbus was about as deep pocketed as you could get.

 

[insndrvr]

It can also be said that Tesla is not just making "another" car. They are making something that isn't offered by the big companies right now.

Their cars are also a good bit simpler, for lack of a better word, since they don't need all the extra systems to support the gasoline engine and emissions controls.

They also don't need to spend the same kind of money on advertising since their product creates so much talk about it being different, the media does the advertising for them.

It's not to say that they aren't going to spend a lot of money doing this, but the world economy is changing so fast, and it only going to keep getting faster, that I feel a company like this can succeed in ways that the "old" companies wouldn't be able to.

It will be interesting to see what the next year holds for Tesla, it is a very crucial time, they need cars on the road to create some positive news.

 

[Takumi]

Be careful there! What are the successful startups in the auto biz? Many would say that the landscape is such that only the big old companies are capable of hanging on. Be it customer expectations, massive regulation, or even protective subterfuge from the establishment, it doesn't seem to be an easy road for the newcomers.

It will be sad if Tesla doesn't flourish. They seem to have navigated through so many of the hurdles.

If you talk global, then there's a few. If in the U.S. that's a different story. Remember Hyundai? They worked with Mitsubishi with their engines. Remember those Chinese car companies? Remember Tata Motors? Remember Tesla? They worked with Lotus Engineering.

 

[dsm363]

While I think the Whitestar will survive as a vehicle, the original concept might not survive, and it might become a REEV or something. It might even turn into some sort of partnership deal with another company. Hopefully, if they decide to do anything other than a pure BEV, it will be offered in both REEV and pure BEV forms.

Where would they put the engine? They'd have to scratch the car and start over from scratch basically. The Model S will either be delivered as an EV or it won't be delivered at all.

 

[dsm363]

Sidenote:
Comments on the WhiteStar post referred to an article at CNET about the recent firings. So I thought it warranted a post. It's from Jan 11 though.
Tesla denies layoffs, but fires 10 percent of staff
Link:Tesla denies layoffs, but fires 10 percent of staff | Green Tech blog - CNET News.com

Isn't this article from 2008?

 

[Robert.Boston]

Yep, this whole thread started back in 2008; it got resurrected now as a retrospective on the question, should Elon be finding a tasty hat?

 

[doug]

Yes, sorry. Be sure to look at dates put statements in proper context. I'll go ahead and move my production cost question out of this thread so as not to convolve it with out of date speculation.

 

[Iz]

Interesting to resurrect this thread almost 4 years to the day. TM has come a long way since.

 

[dsm363]

Yep, this whole thread started back in 2008; it got resurrected now as a retrospective on the question, should Elon be finding a tasty hat?

I see. I didn't noticed the thread itself had started back in 2008.

Tesla certainly has come a long way in the past few years. Will certainly be an interesting year for Tesla.

 

[nleggatt]

Is there anyway for the moderators to kill or move this thread, or rename it as FROM 2008!!!, just so that people are not led astray. I almost didn't notice the dates, and considering it refers to 2 Execs leaving, it is very very untimely to be brought back to the top of the thread.