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FSD Challenges - Things that make it so hard to do...

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by aSlowOldGUy, Mar 25, 2019.

  1. aSlowOldGUy

    aSlowOldGUy Member

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    On my way to work each day, I think how, like many things, the devil is in the details for FSD. I'm really curious how FSD is going to be able to recognize and handle:

    • School Bus Pickup / Drop off: How to know to stop at the right place and wait until the right time to start. If there's other cars, that would make it easier, but it is a unique thing with the lights and the rules.
    • Speed Bumps: Unless they are marked via GPS (and within inches of their true location), this presents a problem.
    • Big Pot Holes: Assuming the cameras are that good I suppose.
    • Road Debris: Again, I'll just assume that the cameras are good enough to detect stationary / moving debris (and animals too!)

    Anyone else have more "edge cases" that might make life difficult for FSD?
     
  2. woodisgood

    woodisgood It's walnut, beech

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    - Double parked large vehicles that require you to go into the opposite/oncoming side of the street
    - Bicyclists weaving in and out of traffic
    - Complicated intersections e.g. 5-way (lots of those in SF)
     
  3. aSlowOldGUy

    aSlowOldGUy Member

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    YES on the double parked! I was leaving my neighborhood this weekend and there was a truck completely blocking my side of the street. I had to drive onto the other side. How is that going to work??
     
  4. ABCDE

    ABCDE Member

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    -plastic bags blowing in the wind
    -stuff that falls off a trailer
    -people who say are running on the sidewalk and full so they dip into the bike lane
    -bikers who are stacked up and not in the bike lane fully
    -yellow light, does it slam or break or speed up? HAHAHA
    -roundabouts

    I haven't read anything on this, but it appears everything thinks you need LIDAR to be full self driving.. although I wouldn't want self driving in fog and snow... ???? "oh that's to bad to hear, how did he die, he set autopilot in the blizzard storm... OHHHHHHH"
     
  5. Sputnik19

    Sputnik19 Member

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    I used NOA In the carpool la e this weekend on my road trip and I was constantly worried about motorcycles weaving through the double lane. The car does not adjust for it. Sucks I have to pay extra attention.

    Hope future updates can adapt, well see.
     
  6. woodisgood

    woodisgood It's walnut, beech

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    Right turns on red. Never?

    Most intersections here people will literally run you off the road if you’re waiting for green. The buses will too.
     
  7. neptunesfinest

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    How about when a police officer or construction worker is directing traffic? The car would need to recognize hand signals.
    Or when you have an idiot driver who thinks they’re being nice by giving up the right of way (and end up just creating dangerous confusion)? The car would need to read the other driver’s hand signals from inside their car.
     
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  8. aSlowOldGUy

    aSlowOldGUy Member

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    Good examples. There's SO MANY one-off occurrences. I have trouble seeing the car handling this without some sort of human intervention. I hope I'm wrong.
     
  9. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Well-Known Member

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    To me it seems like the trickiest thing is predicting how other drivers, pedestrians and cyclists are going to behave. This talk from the director of engineering at Waymo is interesting:
     
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  10. ChrisH

    ChrisH Active Member

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    Others giving up the right away at a four way stop is one of my biggest pet peeves of all time.
     
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  11. dethman

    dethman Member

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    Just some of the reasons why real FSD is a far off dream.
     
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  12. Mod3forMe

    Mod3forMe Member

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    Where I live you need to yield to buses. They have the right away to pull into your lane anytime anywhere and they take advantage of this. So when you see a bus just finishing being loaded you get ready to be cut-off.

    By the way a great thread that bring some real reality into making FSD work.
     
  13. astrowunder

    astrowunder Member

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    Sunrise, sunset on concrete. The cameras just can't see the lines and they go crazy. Would be a shame if the cars need to not drive certain directions at certain times of the day.
     
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  14. gavine

    gavine Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast

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    Pulling-over for an ambulance on a busy city street (happened to me yesterday in Philly).
     
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  15. 5_+JqckQttqck

    5_+JqckQttqck Active Member

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    Lets be realistic, FSD would only work in good driving conditions.

    No extreme weather events.

    The unexpected events are likely one offs and will be ID's as such by the AI network. Pots holes, cyclists, and construction is the more common variables to consider. We don't know the extent of the AI's abilities, think of all the driving we've ever done and the years of experience gain as an individual. Accelerate that by X number of vehicles that keeps growing. It'll be a pretty damn good daily driver barring extreme incidents.

    Hell, humans crash their cars everyday - all it takes is one mistake. I believe FSD will still require semi active human oversight for years to come. It's a tool and be used within it's limits.
     
  16. insaneoctane

    insaneoctane Active Member

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    Many of the examples listed above are "fringe" cases. Tesla will likely release FSD functionality in beta mode which will require the driver to be responsible (I know that's not FSD). It also won't cover something like 10% of scenarios, or weather, or ???. Those fringe cases won't be addressed until much later. We might only be months away from FSD beta, but we are years away from FSD actual.
     
  17. aSlowOldGUy

    aSlowOldGUy Member

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    I think so too. I just can't wrap my head around true FSD where the driver can completely ignore what's happening, road-wise. I REALLY want it to happen, but the devil is in the details (i.e. the fringe cases)
     
  18. Mod3forMe

    Mod3forMe Member

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    #18 Mod3forMe, Mar 26, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
    Keep in mind what Elon promised is not just the the driver can ignore what is going on, but the driver does not need to be in the car at all.

    I have to think we are super far away from that, as if something does confuse the car it will be stranded
     
  19. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Well-Known Member

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    I can’t get over how ridiculous this is. From all I can tell Tesla is where the state of the art was 10 years ago. The only info we have though is that the latest builds can almost do Elon’s commute.
    Presumably the car would have a mode to be remote controlled. Waymo’s license for driverless car testing in California requires a remote operator to be able to control the vehicle.
     
  20. Trevor B

    Trevor B Active Member

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