FSD Frustration

[brianman]

• You just accelerated the car you bought because you liked how it drove. You shall be punished.
• You accelerated on an onramp more than what we have decreed, you shall be punished.

Source?

This seems to directly contradict the official description:

Safety Score Beta | Tesla Support

The Safety Score Beta is an assessment of your driving behavior based on several metrics called Safety Factors. These are combined to estimate the likelihood that your driving could result in a future collision. We combine your daily Safety Scores (up to 30 days) to calculate the aggregated...

www.tesla.com

 

[kizamybute']

At least accordingly to Tesla's literature on the subject, "Acceleration" is not one of the factors that is scored.

However, as the Drag Times video points out, commonly, hard acceleration leads to harder braking. Possibly harder turning too. So, you may not get dinged for getting up to 150 MPH in 1/4 mile, but, better make sure you have another 1/4 mile to slow down gently.

Anyone that takes their car to a short 1/8th mile drag strip will certainly be getting dinged for enjoying their car in a controlled environment. Many of the 1/8th miles are only 1/8th mile instead of 1/4 mile, because they don't have space and commonly require strong braking to slow down after the line. Especially on a car as quick as the Tesla.

Another car makes a left turn in front of you, better just hit it, instead of slowing down too abruptly to avoid it. Don't swerve to avoid it either, because you'll trigger the too hard turn factor instead.

Leave open space in front so you don't get dinged for following too closely.....at least on L.A. freeways and streets, that just means everyone cuts in front of you and now your safe following distance is gone and apparently you get dinged......At least accordingly to my rating as I know darn good and well I never got remotely close to another car on my own.

As other have said, a bunch of Tesla drivers are going to be driving like grandma's this week. For me, any time I see a Prius on the road, I do everything in my power to not end up behind it because it seems like everyone of them drives 15 MPH UNDER the speed limit. I've determined, they only get such good gas mileage because people drive them so damn slow!!

Anyway, I just knew it would drive me nuts, so chose to just opt out for now. I enjoy actually driving my car anyway. And, if FSD Beta drives anything like NAV ON AP, no damn way I'd let it do the driving for me. I'm sure it works for many, especially in non-heavy traffic situations. But on L.A. freeways, it's scary letting it try to get over from the left lane to the right lane to take the next freeway transition. I have to take over 95% of the time to not be a rude driver and piss off everyone behind me by slowing down to 50 MPH in the fast lane, as it constantly wants to do on L.A. freeways where most people do not leave much room between them and the car in front. I'll wait to hear the real world reviews before committing. Or maybe, I'll just trade cars with grandma for the week and let her drive my car!!

And for the forum police.....remember...tongue in cheek. Don't take everything I said too literally!

 

[SO16]

People are opting out of this already because they don’t want to drive like grandma?!?! Lol

1. Just drive like you normally do.
2. The score improves with more miles as long as you are not too crazy.
3. Do we even know the cut off limit for the beta access?

Brooks is not correct here. This FSD version being pushed out is still a somewhat unknown. So therefore only drivers that are considered “responsible” should get it….for right now. Maybe in 6 months it will be considered good enough to give to the masses.

 

[SO16]

Yeah, this thing is blanking stupid!!
Now get dinged for aggressive turning. Absolutely drove like a friggen grandma and somehow got dinged. And again for following too close. The only time a car got close was when they all pulled in front of me because I was leaving too much friggen room.

As others have said, just took all the fun out of driving these cars. I'm done. Tesla can keep their FSD and will get the car back in a few months anyway. Had hoped to at least try it out before moving on from Tesla after 9 years, but not if this is what it takes to "get approved" to help them develop their software. How about checking my driving record and determining if I've had a bunch of accidents or not instead of this stupid set up.

Opted out of it today because I know I wouldn't be able to prevent myself from checking it. Pay $30,000 (over three cars) for this?? Seriously! After waiting for 7 years! No longer having two of the cars I paid for it on and never got it. Guess this one will make three.

I should have stayed opted in just to see how low of a score I could get!! That would have been fun! Build cars that needlessly accelerate from 0-60 MPH in under 2 seconds and now say, "drive slower than grandma" if you want to use the features you paid for!! Just another step by Tesla that has pushed me further away.

For that 30k you spent, you have gotten NONE of that back when selling your cars? Or do you still have all of them?

Granted, you would only get a fraction of that back but it sure should be higher than zero.

 

[SO16]

To all those that demand we all get FSD right now, just stop and think it through for a second.

If this was released to everyone and many accidents occurred (which likely they would due to shear numbers we are talking about), this thing would be dead before it even got started because the media and lawmakers would crap a brick. They will anyways. But at least this method should help mitigate a bit.

I am hoping that within about 6 months, it should be proven enough to be given to everyone regardless of driving style.

I’m looking forward to it as much as anyone else. Bought it 5 years ago.

Don’t believe me about the “dead before it even gets started”? Check this out.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1442290273766109186

 

[Wingsy]

And forget about ever launching or enjoy the acceleration of your car or take an on/off ramp to responsibly enjoy your car.

It is my understanding that excessive deceleration and lateral acceleration will count against you but forward acceleration will not.

 

[zanary]

Did anyone read the FAQ (Customer and Product Support | Tesla Support Link is in the mobile app as well.

Hard Breaking, Aggressive Turning and Unsafe Following are a percentage, so if you think you got dinged, just drive more (safely) on that same trip to reduce your chances of getting into the RED or even YELLOW. The more you drive in that single trip, the "percentage" gets reduced.

Hard braking is introduced into the Safety Score formula as the proportion of time (expressed as a percentage) where the vehicle experiences backward acceleration greater than 0.3g relative to the proportion of time where the vehicle experiences backward acceleration greater than 0.1g (2.2 mph in one second).

Aggressive turning is introduced into the Safety Score formula as the proportion of time (expressed as a percentage) where the vehicle experiences lateral acceleration greater than 0.4g, in either the left or right direction, relative to the proportion of time where the vehicle experiences acceleration greater than 0.2g (4.5 mph in one second), in either the left or right direction.

Your Tesla vehicle measures its own speed, the speed of the vehicle in front and the distance between the two vehicles. Based on these measurements, your vehicle calculates the number of seconds you would have to react and stop if the vehicle in front of you came to a sudden stop. This measurement is called headway. Unsafe following is the proportion of time where your vehicle’s headway is less than 1.0 seconds relative to the time that your vehicle’s headway is less than 3.0 seconds. Unsafe following is only measured when your vehicle is traveling at least 50 mph and is incorporated into the Safety Score formula as a percentage.

Did you know??? You can use the "Safety Score Simulator" (found under under the Daily Details in Safety Score menu option) to determine what "percentage" you have to be in to get YELLOW and RED. This way you can then extrapolate percentage based on time you need to reduce the likely hood of getting dinger.

This is more of a math problem than anything else if you want to get yourself above the 80% (assuming everyone is right in the fact that you need 80% to pass).

So drive hard, and then drive like grandma for one hour, and you just might not get a lot of REDs.

 

[DCEV]

Source?

This seems to directly contradict the official description:

Safety Score Beta | Tesla Support

The Safety Score Beta is an assessment of your driving behavior based on several metrics called Safety Factors. These are combined to estimate the likelihood that your driving could result in a future collision. We combine your daily Safety Scores (up to 30 days) to calculate the aggregated...

www.tesla.com

Yeah the official description leaves out one little fact where they absolutely get you for acceleration/launches.

When I launch my car, I pull about 1.2Gs.

And being the responsible and safe driver I am, I don't push the car for long. I only launch when both sides of the road are clear and there is no other traffic. Just a quick bit of acceleration to just around the speed limit every now and then and then I back off. When they get you is not when you accelerate but when you stop accelerating, you no longer have 1-1.2Gs of forward acceleration and then you have about 50KW of regen on top of that. Both combined is enough to punish you for wanting to safely and responsibly enjoy what you bought.

They've made it miserable to drive my car and how the car drove is the reason I bought the car to begin with. They've killed the joy of driving this car in order to have access to a feature I paid for. I bet many of the Tesla executives and current FSD Beta users will not get good marks with this test. Especially if they live in dense urban areas with lots of traffic and if they bought a Performance model.

Don't get me wrong, I understand what they are trying to do here. I disagree that what they are testing here is safety. They are testing if you are "Grandma in a Prius."

Wish they would instead use your insurance claim history and driving record as those two factors are more meaningful than what they are "testing."

And though I would not be in the first line, I wish they gave FSD Beta to the people who bought it the first and gradually open it to more people. It's the only fair thing to do. I would gladly wait my turn knowing they are taking care of the customers who bought this feature first.

 

[M109Rider]

It doesn't take much for that score to to drop.

Even if you are cut off by someone and then you quickly slow down, because that's the actual safe thing to do, the Orwellian algorithm will punish you for that.

A dear crosses the road and you slow down suddenly or stop to avoid hitting the deer, again you are punished.

And forget about ever launching or enjoy the acceleration of your car or take an on/off ramp to responsibly enjoy your car.

I'm shocked people are okay with this.

And I'm not even talking about the massive privacy implications. God forbid you are in an accident, someone can subpoena your entire driving history from Tesla now even if you were not at fault. Something that is not possible if you were instead driving a Lucid, Rivian, Porsche, or Mercedes. What they should have done was generate a hash key in the car where the FSD is verified at the car level and use that hash key that is not tied to your VIN for privacy. They could have built the system to uniquely identify cars without the privacy implications for the owner.

Who thought they'd have to agree to your entire driving history being exposed to a subpoena for trying to get access to something they bought 3 years ago.

Your comment :“I’m shocked people are okay with this”

I suspect Tesla is looking for people that want to play ball, play well, and work with the progress of this rollout.
this is a perfect example, of who they are trying to weed out.
I’m not trying to insult you. To each their own. Just saying I think your an example, of who they don’t want using it at the moment, at this stage.
Again, no offense

 

[zanary]

OK, so using the Safety Score Simulator, here are the percentages you need to be within to keep with the colors.

Tesla FSD Beta Safety Score Simulator

Forward Collision Warning
Yellow = 7.7%
Red = 13.5%
Max = 100%

Hard Breaking
Yellow = 1.5%
Red = 2.0%
Max = 7.4%

Aggressive Turning
Yellow = 2.2%
Red = 3.7%
Max = 17.1%

Unsafe Following
Yellow = 12%
Red = 20.4%
Max = 60%

Forced Autopilot Disengagements
Yellow = N/A
Red = 1
Max = 1

 

[DCEV]

Your comment :“I’m shocked people are okay with this”

I suspect Tesla is looking for people that want to play ball, play well, and work with the progress of this rollout.
this is a perfect example, of who they are trying to weed out.
I’m not trying to insult you. To each their own. Just saying I think your an example, of who they don’t want using it at the moment, at this stage.
Again, no offense

No offense taken but all I'm saying is that what it is they are testing is NOT how good you are at monitoring FSD. Heck I even don't think this tests if you are a safe driver. This test is especially awful for anyone who bought a Performance model because you could be the safest driver in the world and a few launches and a few turns on an empty road and you are screwed.

I am super super careful when I monitor Autopilot driving the car. I am hyper vigilant to a point where I'm even more careful than when I'm just driving my car. I'm watching traffic all around me. Anticipating what traffic around me might do and I ALSO anticipate what Autopilot might do.

I am also aware that while I enjoy Autopilot, I should be respectful of other road users and not confuse or impede them.

I'm willing to bet many current FSD Beta users will not get such good scores with this test. I know some of them personally and I know how they drive haha

 

[Bull]

I'm really surprised that people are thinking that Tesla is only looking at your safety score. They are absolutely tracking more information and will use everything they can to select the best drivers for their beta program. By opting in you gave them permission to track your driving behavior. Not some of your driving, any of it that they desire. This is as it should be.

 

[N8Howell33]

So if I have MCU1 but FSD 3 chip I won’t be getting this anytime soon?

 

[zanary]

So if I have MCU1 but FSD 3 chip I won’t be getting this anytime soon?

Probably not. You may need to invest in the Infotainment Ugrade Package (Infotainment Upgrade)

 

[SO16]

Probably not. You may need to invest in the Infotainment Ugrade Package (Infotainment Upgrade)

…if you want access to this early access beta. Or maybe can wait until FSD is released to the masses without upgrading to MCU2.

Personally the MCU2 upgrade has been worth it. Everything works much better (like voice commands) and feels like a new car. But that’s another topic.

 

[r1200gs4ok]

ok......I have the older version of the app.........I have a iPhone 6+........I went to the car an opted into the beta.......then I went to the App Store and tried to download the 4.0.1 version......no go.....I have to update the app but when I try, it tells me I have to update to an older version.......

since I opted in I cannot see my safety score......so I went to my wifes iPhone 12......upgraded to current Tesla app (4.0.1) and swiped over to my car.....did not see the score at the bottom.....

question is, since I opted in, should I be able to see my score on my wife's iPhone 12? .......I am getting scored but I cant see it.....I have ordered a new iPhone 13 plus and will download the new version.......when I do this, should I see it then on my new iPhone?

well, it may not matter after all......since I have opted into beta, Tesla is scoring me......since there is a waiting period of 7 days, I probably wont be able to see score......I guess, if I get the download button, I know I passed.....

last question: does the scoring process continue to monitor you after downloading the FSD?

thanks in advance for any help

 

[brianman]

they absolutely get you for acceleration/launches.

Just a quick bit of acceleration to just around the speed limit every now and then and then I back off. When they get you is not when you accelerate but when you stop accelerating, you no longer have 1-1.2Gs of forward acceleration and then you have about 50KW of regen on top of that. Both combined is enough to punish you for wanting to safely and responsibly enjoy what you bought.

Your logic is incorrect.

"They get you for X" is not the same as "They get you for doing something after X happens".

Maybe try focusing on decelerating at the approved rates rather than enticing any car behind you to have an accident plowing through you when you brake hard.

Also "stopping acceleration" isn't deceleration. So try setting cruise control to the speed limit exactly (you can even do that with the car's setting directly) and just release the acceleration when near it. This should make your "sprint to the limit" followed by "maintain speed" reach zero after you let off the accelerator, if your timing is good.

 

[drift]

Probably not. You may need to invest in the Infotainment Ugrade Package (Infotainment Upgrade)

And yet Tesla has said that what MCU you have has nothing to do with FSD. I guess we'll see.

 

[eipi10]

This is a rant. Feel free to pass by.

i have a 2017 S, HW3, MCU1, HW2Cameras. I'm on software 2020,48,37.6. I bought FSD when I bought the car. I wish there some concept of loyalty to the older customers. I've been waiting a long time. all these M3 and MY's get the beta button, and I don't.

Its so very very frustrating.

There is no FSD. You bought something that didn't exist. The Beta doesn't work; you can go on YouTube to see that. It's nowhere close to working. It will kill people unless you are hyper vigilant. You really want a button for that?

 

[kizamybute']

People are opting out of this already because they don’t want to drive like grandma?!?! Lol

1. Just drive like you normally do.
2. The score improves with more miles as long as you are not too crazy.
3. Do we even know the cut off limit for the beta access?

Brooks is not correct here. This FSD version being pushed out is still a somewhat unknown. So therefore only drivers that are considered “responsible” should get it….for right now. Maybe in 6 months it will be considered good enough to give to the masses.

Remember through, EVERYTHING Tesla releases is "Beta". AP1 is still beta. Auto wipers are still Beta. Smart Summon is Beta. It's all Beta. So whatever they release is the best version that they've been able to come up with. Just like thy sold Enhanced AP or gladly took $10,000 from anyone who wanted it. I should be delivered to all that paid for it. either that, or tell the customer, they're not eligible and refund their money. FSD will be in Beta forever. At least until Level 5 autonomy is fully ready for primetime. We are clearly years and yeas and years away from that.

For that 30k you spent, you have gotten NONE of that back when selling your cars? Or do you still have all of them?

Granted, you would only get a fraction of that back but it sure should be higher than zero.

I purchased one and leased two of the others. Being that I just turned in the leases at the end, got noting in return. Could have saved $300 +/- per month or so on the lease had I not opted for it. The other car, being that when I sold it, and I guess is still true today, FSD doesn't do much. It has no real measurable impact on resale values. Of course, if they ever do get it to work, then it will have value at that point. But for now, it's pretty much $10,000 vaporware.