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FSD Subscription
- Thread starter Ccmun
- Start date
JACMS3
Member
It should be subscription to own. Meaning keep paying until we hit the selling price.
Even if you suspend the subscription the money towards fsd stay.
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
At first I was thinking that $100 per month was way too low, but it might actually make sense.
According to Autotrader, the average time someone keeps a new car is 6 years: Autotrader - page unavailable
For most people, a subscription of $100 per month over 6 years of ownership would be break-even with paying $7,000 upfront. And of course those who have paid up front will see greater savings over 6 years, and can recoup some of that cost when they sell the vehicle.
I do wonder what this will do to the residual value of FSD on used vehicles, however. I don't think FSD on a used vehicle fetches a full $7,000, but I think it is still highly valued. Would future used-Tesla buyers still value it as highly if they can just subscribe after purchase?
HIGHLY unlikely. Otherwise you could get the upgrade, cancel the subscription and end up with free upgrade for say a month of subscription.
This is a really interesting thing to think about because when I see a used Tesla w/ FSD, I automatically subtract $7k to compare baseline price because my thinking is that the vehicle has depreciated but there effectively is no "depreciation" for FSD since it's replacement cost is still $7k.
Subscription might change this a bit but not exactly sure how.
If FSD subscription is priced right, I would probably give it a consideration during long road trips (not now of course).
Given my work commute is basically 90% highways, I don't really see FSD that useful in my situation. At $7,000, it isn't that worth it to me, and especially Elon has stated it will increase the price of FSD again later in the year (probably $8,000).
Given my work commute is basically 90% highways, I don't really see FSD that useful in my situation. At $7,000, it isn't that worth it to me, and especially Elon has stated it will increase the price of FSD again later in the year (probably $8,000).
Yea i would prefer a la carte pricing vs subscription tbh. I would like basic summon if the car is in a tight spot and maybe auto park but NoA was more stressful for me than AP and city driving will never work with the idiot drivers who live here.
Not likely. Stated it would be a "monthly" subscription. Also unknown if you can do month to month or if term is required.
Make sure to include the opportunity cost of the money. If you're paying only monthly with nothing down you can grow the remaining money in a long term investment to offset the cost. With a decent investment returning say 10% annually and reinvestment growing the principle that could be a nice offset.
If you pay the full $7K upfront you can't make anything off that since it's sunk. You do have the residual value of FSD ownership at used resale time, but what is that. Possibly about the same as what you could get with a decent investment and paying monthly.
Now if they let you pay monthly, and own at the end. That's something. But it's unlikely to be an option.
I get your point about opportunity cost of money but there's lots of factors like risk of loss in stock market, for example. Also, since you can pay $7k on a CC you can use that for sign up bonuses valued at $750+ so there's a benefit there. Also, Elon's notorious "appreciating asset" comment could actually apply to resale value of FSD. If you pay $7k and sell 2 years later when FSD costs $9k then it's going to be worth more. I lean towards paying less upfront, which is the reason why I put down almost the minimum for financing because I had a very low interest rate and I thought I could make more with the rest but just trying to show that this FSD math is a little trickier.
Yea this would just be 0% financing which I don't believe will happen.
This is why you roll it into the car loan you grab while interest rates are low.
Correct me if I'm wrong...
Except that getting it upfront with the loan 1) Increases the purchase price taxes; 2) Increases the registration fees based on purchase price (in CA anyway), 3) have to pay the 4% (or whatever) loan rate.
Cheaper to by the car. Add via the app. which in CA still requires taxes. Then get a refinanced loan. Or personal loan of which I've been offered some as low as 2% recently which I used to reduce the 3.49% I was paying on the Tesla (aka US Bank) loan.
Don't forget that you're paying more to buy it afterwards. I vaguely remember doing the math and deciding I was better off buying with the car.
Also if you make a change to the car that adds that much to the alleged value, you probably need to inform your insurance company so you don't get screwed if some Karen runs into you.
pl8dlikafiddle
Member
To me, the most worthwhile feature of FSD tech of today is automatic lane change . That is the one feature I would probably be willing to pay a one-time $3,000 for (similar to EAP pricing when it was available, but I can live without the others).
If they really want quick cash, they should even consider daily subscriptions. I'd be willing to pay $50/day for auto lane change. It's already relaxing to drive long distances with standard Autopilot - it would be even better and worth $50 for my lazy butt to not have to disengage it and change lanes for 500 miles. Plus side for Tesla? They might get $100-200 of my money here and there VS $0. It would be priced high enough per day to where it might ease the sting on the folks that paid for the full suite @ $5000-$7000.
To me, pricing it at $100-200/mo is a slap in the face to the folks that bought the full suite at current/past prices. But then again, Tesla has a track record of not giving a *sugar* LOL.
In the end, money talks. There are hundreds of thousands of Model 3 owners alone that have a car in their driveway with hardware installed that Tesla didn't make the additional $5000-$7000 off of, and they could potentially get some of that back with a subscription service.
If they really want quick cash, they should even consider daily subscriptions. I'd be willing to pay $50/day for auto lane change. It's already relaxing to drive long distances with standard Autopilot - it would be even better and worth $50 for my lazy butt to not have to disengage it and change lanes for 500 miles. Plus side for Tesla? They might get $100-200 of my money here and there VS $0. It would be priced high enough per day to where it might ease the sting on the folks that paid for the full suite @ $5000-$7000.
To me, pricing it at $100-200/mo is a slap in the face to the folks that bought the full suite at current/past prices. But then again, Tesla has a track record of not giving a *sugar* LOL.
In the end, money talks. There are hundreds of thousands of Model 3 owners alone that have a car in their driveway with hardware installed that Tesla didn't make the additional $5000-$7000 off of, and they could potentially get some of that back with a subscription service.
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
I've only bought AP, but I called my insurer and had them note that the software was added to the car. On an SR+ just AP added almost 10% to the car's value.
Ultimately it's going to come down to price per month, and policies regarding canceling.
The advantage to buying FSD is that you own it, and you can sell the car with FSD at the end. So that means you'll get some money back for FSD. How much money really depends on the current state of FSD with your hardware at the time you sell it. How much value it has to the buyer.
If the FSD subscription is $100/month it doesn't make much sense to get it if I'm going to be keeping the car awhile. If I kept it for 6 years than that would be $7200 which is far more than $7K upfront for FSD minus the $3K or so that I'd get for it when selling it. The FSD would have to be $50 or less per month to make sense.
If I was keeping it for a short amount of times like 2 to 3 years than it might make sense to get the subscription even at $100/month.
Now where it REALLY makes sense is to pay $100/month during evaluation periods. Like lets say you're not comfortable laying out $7K for FSD. But, you don't mind occasionally shelling out $100 a month for a couple times a year to see where it's currently at.
Like I paid $8K (EAP+FSD) which is now just FSD, and none of stuff that's currently listed as FSD works per my own testing. NoA is a failure in traffic, Smart Summon is a failure of epic proportions, and Traffic light detection and stopping is very preliminary where I'm not happy with the smoothness of the stopping. Sometimes it's okay, and other times its not. With some work it might be pretty smooth.
If I was subscribing to FSD I'd likely cancel, and wait another 6 months to try it out again.
The other thing that really impacts subscription versus buy is weather. I live in the PNW and we only really get 3-4 months of solidly good weather. So I could see subscribing for just these months if allowed.
Probably the most important aspect of subscription pricing is it really has to work. I don't think I'd pay $50/month for what it currently does. Sure lane changes would be really annoying with basic AP. But, I think they should fix that by simply disabling AP when the turn signal has been activated, and automatically turning it back on after X number of seconds later. Or something like that. Auto-lane changes are pure joy, but not $50/month worth.
The advantage to buying FSD is that you own it, and you can sell the car with FSD at the end. So that means you'll get some money back for FSD. How much money really depends on the current state of FSD with your hardware at the time you sell it. How much value it has to the buyer.
If the FSD subscription is $100/month it doesn't make much sense to get it if I'm going to be keeping the car awhile. If I kept it for 6 years than that would be $7200 which is far more than $7K upfront for FSD minus the $3K or so that I'd get for it when selling it. The FSD would have to be $50 or less per month to make sense.
If I was keeping it for a short amount of times like 2 to 3 years than it might make sense to get the subscription even at $100/month.
Now where it REALLY makes sense is to pay $100/month during evaluation periods. Like lets say you're not comfortable laying out $7K for FSD. But, you don't mind occasionally shelling out $100 a month for a couple times a year to see where it's currently at.
Like I paid $8K (EAP+FSD) which is now just FSD, and none of stuff that's currently listed as FSD works per my own testing. NoA is a failure in traffic, Smart Summon is a failure of epic proportions, and Traffic light detection and stopping is very preliminary where I'm not happy with the smoothness of the stopping. Sometimes it's okay, and other times its not. With some work it might be pretty smooth.
If I was subscribing to FSD I'd likely cancel, and wait another 6 months to try it out again.
The other thing that really impacts subscription versus buy is weather. I live in the PNW and we only really get 3-4 months of solidly good weather. So I could see subscribing for just these months if allowed.
Probably the most important aspect of subscription pricing is it really has to work. I don't think I'd pay $50/month for what it currently does. Sure lane changes would be really annoying with basic AP. But, I think they should fix that by simply disabling AP when the turn signal has been activated, and automatically turning it back on after X number of seconds later. Or something like that. Auto-lane changes are pure joy, but not $50/month worth.
Maybe we can get an EAP subscription option for $75-100/mo
I’m trying to understand the COMPLETE detachment from reality in this thread. After it’s been pointed out mathematically that the subscription can’t be $100/month. People continue to waste time discussing $50/month or less subscriptions...
Despite the cost of FSD increasing over time, Tesla demand being at all time highs, and MORE functionality being added to FSD some of you think the price will be cut to 1/5th of current price? For what? To MAYBE capture an audience that’s too cheap to pay for the features and don’t see the value?
This is an easy business decision. Tesla will tell you take your $50 and kick rocks. All money isn’t good money. One buyer paying $7k upfront is worth 50 of you, lol. Is there anyone here who can make an actual business case for that $50? If not, stop with the wishful thinking nonsense.
Since this is the fantasy world thread, maybe Porsche will drop the Taycan down to the price of a model 3 LR, since, you know, they have the same 0-60
Despite the cost of FSD increasing over time, Tesla demand being at all time highs, and MORE functionality being added to FSD some of you think the price will be cut to 1/5th of current price? For what? To MAYBE capture an audience that’s too cheap to pay for the features and don’t see the value?
This is an easy business decision. Tesla will tell you take your $50 and kick rocks. All money isn’t good money. One buyer paying $7k upfront is worth 50 of you, lol. Is there anyone here who can make an actual business case for that $50? If not, stop with the wishful thinking nonsense.
Since this is the fantasy world thread, maybe Porsche will drop the Taycan down to the price of a model 3 LR, since, you know, they have the same 0-60
I can see Tesla offering a Tiered subscription. A lower cost that doesn’t offer or need HW 3.0 with features like EAP that never needed it. I can see the more expensive version to be closer to the 100+ a month. This offers Tesla residual income that they weren’t generating previously. It allows them to target the different demographic those who see value in all the features and are willing to compromise with some features.
Exactly this. I have updates set to Advanced because I don't mind essentially being a beta tester for features that are FREE. But if I was paying for them, I would have much higher expectations of a final product.
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