FSD

[GaryKing]

I was driving home this evening in FSD, and my Model S Plain asked me to move the wheel. My hands were already on the wheel, and I had been moving it against the self-serving. I moved the wheel even more, but no joy. It kicked me out of self-driving for the trip and told me I had four more deactivations until I would be locked out. This is bull *sugar*. First, I was attentively driving with my hands on the wheel and moving the wheel. Second, I paid $12,000, and when it kicked me out, it would not even go back to regular Cruise Control (speed control). I do not understand the "trip penalty," especially when invoked due to a software fault. If the car can drive down the road, it should be able to tell when my hands are on the wheel, and I am actively watching the road. This is a bull *sugar* penalty for something I paid. Is there a class action that I can join against this unfair "taking" of something for which I paid for and complied with?

 

[Tam]

I was driving home this evening in FSD, and my Model S Plain asked me to move the wheel. My hands were already on the wheel, and I had been moving it against the self-serving. I moved the wheel even more, but no joy. It kicked me out of self-driving for the trip and told me I had four more deactivations until I would be locked out. This is bull *sugar*. First, I was attentively driving with my hands on the wheel and moving the wheel. Second, I paid $12,000, and when it kicked me out, it would not even go back to regular Cruise Control (speed control). I do not understand the "trip penalty," especially when invoked due to a software fault. If the car can drive down the road, it should be able to tell when my hands are on the wheel, and I am actively watching the road. This is a bull *sugar* penalty for something I paid. Is there a class action that I can join against this unfair "taking" of something for which I paid for and complied with?

I assume you are new to FSD because if you are old enough, it would cost you $15,000.

It comes from experience: humans must comply with what Tesla robots want, or they'll be penalized and suspended from their paid feature.

If you did not modify the purchase paperwork, it's an arbitration, so there is no class action for you.

You are fighting a losing battle with Tesla robots.

 

[brainhouston]

thank those few ppl that started this whole recall

 

[Takumi]

Scrolling the volume/speed button up or down is your friend here.

 

[GaryKing]

I assume you are new to FSD because if you are old enough, it would cost you $15,000.

It comes from experience: humans must comply with what Tesla robots want, or they'll be penalized and suspended from their paid feature.

If you did not modify the purchase paperwork, it's an arbitration, so there is no class action for you.

You are fighting a losing battle with Tesla robots.

Relatively new, yes, but this is my second Tesla with FSD. I also own a Model 3. I liked it, so I purchased the Model S Plaid when the price was reduced. My point is that the FSD software monitoring the driver does NOT work because it is too sensitive. I have read all the posts about when (and where) to put hands on the wheel, exerting pressure, moving the wheel, etc. I had the same problem when I first purchased my Model 3 in July 2022, but it seemed to abate after an update. Now it's back. The real question is, "What forces Testa to prevent the driver from re-instating FSD or at least going to a standard automated cruise control (TACC)?" I owned an Audi Q7 with automated cruise control and lane following. The Audi would occasionally kick out of automated cruise control (and lane following), but the Audi would let me reinstate cruise control with lane following immediately (without putting the car in park). If the NTSB is responsible for this, Tesla should fight the NSTB. Perhaps Tesla needs an incentive to do this. Perhaps we should be writing our Senators and Representatives to assist us with the NSTB. I would like to be able to use the FSD for which I paid.

 

[Tam]

Relatively new, yes, but this is my second Tesla with FSD. I also own a Model 3. I liked it, so I purchased the Model S Plaid when the price was reduced. My point is that the FSD software monitoring the driver does NOT work because it is too sensitive. I have read all the posts about when (and where) to put hands on the wheel, exerting pressure, moving the wheel, etc. I had the same problem when I first purchased my Model 3 in July 2022, but it seemed to abate after an update. Now it's back. The real question is, "What forces Testa to prevent the driver from re-instating FSD or at least going to a standard automated cruise control (TACC)?" I owned an Audi Q7 with automated cruise control and lane following. The Audi would occasionally kick out of automated cruise control (and lane following), but the Audi would let me reinstate cruise control with lane following immediately (without putting the car in park). If the NTSB is responsible for this, Tesla should fight the NSTB. Perhaps Tesla needs an incentive to do this. Perhaps we should be writing our Senators and Representatives to assist us with the NSTB. I would like to be able to use the FSD for which I paid.

Tesla issued the recall to penalize drivers much more quickly, but blaming that on NHTSA is erroneous.

NHTSA only reported that there had been accidents associated with the attentive use of Tesla driving technology.

NHTSA does not tell Tesla how it can reduce the incidents.

Thus, instead of improving its technology to prevent accidents, Tesla uses it to penalize drivers.

There's hands-off technology that has been used by GM Super Cruise since 2017, so it doesn't make sense for Tesla to punish drivers for hands-off driving in 2024 because the technology is here, not science fiction.

GM does not penalize drivers for hands-off driving. It's Tesla's choice to do that, not GM's or NHTSA's.

 

[ewoodrick]

Tesla issued the recall to penalize drivers much more quickly, but blaming that on NHTSA is erroneous.

NHTSA only reported that there had been accidents associated with the attentive use of Tesla driving technology.

NHTSA does not tell Tesla how it can reduce the incidents.

Thus, instead of improving its technology to prevent accidents, Tesla uses it to penalize drivers.

There's hands-off technology that has been used by GM Super Cruise since 2017, so it doesn't make sense for Tesla to punish drivers for hands-off driving in 2024 because the technology is here, not science fiction.

GM does not penalize drivers for hands-off driving. It's Tesla's choice to do that, not GM's or NHTSA's.

Absolutely disagree.

There have been Tesla drivers abusing the system and they make it into the news. People complain to the NHTSA and then they have to do something. The told Tesla that they needed to do more (even thought the others are doing less) and Tesla has to respond.

 

[ewoodrick]

I was driving home this evening in FSD, and my Model S Plain asked me to move the wheel. My hands were already on the wheel, and I had been moving it against the self-serving. I moved the wheel even more, but no joy. It kicked me out of self-driving for the trip and told me I had four more deactivations until I would be locked out. This is bull *sugar*. First, I was attentively driving with my hands on the wheel and moving the wheel. Second, I paid $12,000, and when it kicked me out, it would not even go back to regular Cruise Control (speed control). I do not understand the "trip penalty," especially when invoked due to a software fault. If the car can drive down the road, it should be able to tell when my hands are on the wheel, and I am actively watching the road. This is a bull *sugar* penalty for something I paid. Is there a class action that I can join against this unfair "taking" of something for which I paid for and complied with?

So, what happened is that you got a strike. It seems as if it was caused by what is considered improper attention to driving. This comes from two sources with FSD, one is not enough torque on the wheel, the other is looking away from the road.

The wheel only needs a little torque or rotational pressure. It can sometimes take a little getting used to. Moving the wheel doesn't really help, it's rotational pressure that it wants. If you use two hands, it's often hard to realize how much pressure is needed. If you just rest one hand on the wheel, it's often quite easy.
It's not hands on the wheel, it's rotational pressure as described in the manual.

You can thank all the idiots that have tried to defeat Tesla's safeguards in the past, as well as all those that blame Tesla that it was the car's fault when the car wasn't driving.

 

[DerbyDave]

The real question is, "What forces Testa to prevent the driver from re-instating FSD or at least going to a standard automated cruise control (TACC)?"

The latest versions of FSD disables traffic aware cruise control. You must go in and disable FSD to regain the cruise control option.

"Traffic-Aware Cruise Control (TACC) has traditionally been one pull of the stalk and Autopilot two pulls, but with the new single-pull method to activate Autopilot, TACC becomes unavailable. This hasn’t been a big deal until the release of FSD v12. With v12 Tesla is now requiring FSD Beta to use the single tap activation method.

This means that if a driver chooses to use FSD Beta, then TACC is no longer accessible. The only way to enable it is to go into Controls > Autopilot and turn off FSD Beta and instead choose Autosteer (or TACC). However, if you wish to enable FSD Beta again later, then it requires the vehicle to be in Park. Switching between Autosteer and FSD Beta isn’t practical for drivers. For those who rely on TACC, this issue could be a significant disadvantage in this release."

Tesla FSD Beta v12 Auto Parks, Completes U-Turns, But Removes Traffic-Aware Cruise Control Ability

Tesla FSD Beta v12's new features: Park Mode, U-turns, streamlined controls, and real-world performance insights.

www.notateslaapp.com

 

[Tam]

Absolutely disagree.

There have been Tesla drivers abusing the system and they make it into the news. People complain to the NHTSA and then they have to do something. The told Tesla that they needed to do more (even thought the others are doing less) and Tesla has to respond.

Yes, Tesla can respond by implementing hands-off technology. Mercedes responds by L3 hands-off, eyes-off technology.

Instead, Tesla chooses the penalty system.

 

[ewoodrick]

Yes, Tesla can respond by implementing hands-off technology. Mercedes responds by L3 hands-off, eyes-off technology.

Instead, Tesla chooses the penalty system.

ROTFLMAO Mercedes L3? ROTFLMAO. It's pretty much the most worthless piece of software out there with, from what I've heard, NDA haven being signed to not disclose to the press.

Sure, Tesla voluntarily enhanced the nags for Autopilot (not FSD). That was basically in response to the feds threatening rules if they didn't.

As Elon has indicated before, it's all or none. The car has been able to drive across country unaided for years. But that's a gimmick. Tesla if going for driving anywhere in the country, a very different thing.

Mercedes? ROTLMAO "Only when following a car going less than 45 mph?"

 

[Tam]

ROTFLMAO Mercedes L3? ROTFLMAO. It's pretty much the most worthless piece of software out there with, from what I've heard, NDA haven being signed to not disclose to the press.

Sure, Tesla voluntarily enhanced the nags for Autopilot (not FSD). That was basically in response to the feds threatening rules if they didn't.

As Elon has indicated before, it's all or none. The car has been able to drive across country unaided for years. But that's a gimmick. Tesla if going for driving anywhere in the country, a very different thing.

Mercedes? ROTLMAO "Only when following a car going less than 45 mph?"

40 MPH is true currently, but this is only the first baby step:

"Outlook into the future: Cooperation is an essential part of Mercedes-Benz's strategy

Mercedes-Benz is focusing on SAE Level 3 conditionally automated driving with the ultimate goal of driving at speeds of up to 80 mph (130 km/h) in its final iteration."


In the meantime, if you don't like the current L3 restriction, you can turn it off and turn on its L2 (the equivalent of Navigation on Autopilot on freeways and not hands-free).

The press and private influencers have been covering its L3 driving so I don't hear anywhere that an NDA has been in the plan.

Mercedes' hands-on technology is capacitive sensing, so any slight touch on the steering wheel would satisfy its requirement.

 

[ewoodrick]

40 MPH is true currently, but this is only the first baby step:

"Outlook into the future: Cooperation is an essential part of Mercedes-Benz's strategy

Mercedes-Benz is focusing on SAE Level 3 conditionally automated driving with the ultimate goal of driving at speeds of up to 80 mph (130 km/h) in its final iteration."


In the meantime, if you don't like the current L3 restriction, you can turn it off and turn on its L2 (the equivalent of Navigation on Autopilot on freeways and not hands-free).

The press and private influencers have been covering its L3 driving so I don't hear anywhere that an NDA has been in the plan.

Mercedes' hands-on technology is capacitive sensing, so any slight touch on the steering wheel would satisfy its requirement.

That's it, change the discussion. Sure, Mercedes is going to create the solutions for the future. So is everyone else.

Have you heard of any incidents or accidents with it? Or just fluff articles that it exists?

 

[Tam]

That's it, change the discussion. Sure, Mercedes is going to create the solutions for the future. So is everyone else.

Have you heard of any incidents or accidents with it? Or just fluff articles that it exists?

I haven't heard any delivery in the US just yet but should be by the middle of this year.

It's been sold in EU for more than 1.5 years and there have been no reports of L3 accidents so far. It should be a big news if there's one because Mercedes takes responsibility for accidents during its eyes off, hands off L3 operation.

Tesla doesn't take responsibility even in very slow speed of auto Park and summon.

So 40 MPH is a baby step to solve the problem of who is responsible for what.