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FUD in Great Britain

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GSP

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Dec 28, 2007
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Don't boil the kettle while charging your electric car because it will blow the fuse, National Grid warns

Looks like another attempt to confuse the public and instill fears that home charging requires expensive service upgrades. This sort of BS is everywhere.

Of course, there are many practical solutions to charge EVs with whatever your existing service is. No need to be afraid of making tea because your car is charging.

Here in the States, I only use a single 240 V circuit to charge my Model S at 16 A. I have a timer to start charging at 10 pm, when the off-peak rates start. It is always nicey charged up in the morning.

I have 200 Amp, 240 Volt single phase service at home (very common here) and could upgrade my 16 A charging circuit if needed, but it is not necessary.

GSP
 
Yes, it's sad to see this stuff coming out with the National Grid giving it a spurious authority.

There certainly are issues with capacity to be resolved, but the supply fuse really isn't the issue. Apart from anything else, the nature of fuses is that even if you were already taking 100% of capacity and then put the kettle on, the 10% overload would have no chance of blowing the fuse before the kettle boils and the overload goes away.

The real issue here is that while the typical house here has at least 60A and often 100A supply, the distribution supplying an estate of houses will be based on only 2kW-3kW per house long-term average, with some allowance for short-term overload. Cables are all underground (except in rural areas) and we tend to have fewer, larger transformers than a US-style distribution, so upgrading to relieve this district-wide capacity constraint would be expensive.

Fortunately, if you do the sums for average mileage per year, average number of cars per household etc. 2kW per household is actually just about enough for everyone to charge during the nighttime hours when demand is otherwise very low.

But even with fairly low EV penetration there isn't enough capacity for everyone to just plug in when they get home (or to start charging at the start of the off-peak period). So we need automated demand management to spread the load. It's not clear that telling people to turn off their kettles is a useful step in that direction...
 
Robert @ Fully Charged also addressed this nonsense article and I had already thought about his main point - the article talks about 11kW charging and assumes that a load that size is put on a single phase service. In reality, 11kW EVSE are only used on 3-phase service which almost always has more total capacity. I'm pretty sure the most draw you will find on a UK single phase EVSE is 7.6kW (32 amps). That obviates the problem of charging on a 60 amp single phase service and boiling a kettle at the same time. Besides that, there are technological solutions that can be applied to this problem like EVSE that monitor the total draw on the service and throttle down when the service draw is nearing capacity. Somebody was intentionally throwing shade on EVs with that article. That much is clear.
 
Having driven my Model S around 45000km only through home charging I'd say you don't need more than that. I've got a 16A 240V standard schuko plug as my home charger. As it only pulls 13A that's a far cry from 11kW. I'm perfectly fine with that speed.

Cobos
 
I'm pretty sure the most draw you will find on a UK single phase EVSE is 7.6kW (32 amps). That obviates the problem of charging on a 60 amp single phase service and boiling a kettle at the same time.

Yes, 32A is the maximum available on a single phase setup, whether using a wall charger or a UMC with the Commando socket adaptor. Although, some newer small homes in the UK are apparently being wired up to have a total of 32A available for the whole house, which seems very low to me. However, when an electrician wires up a home with an EV charger, he will also address any shortcoming in the overall capacity. If the main fuse doesn't offer enough capacity, the electricity suppliers can upgrade it. As I understand it, the electricity suppliers can claim a subsidy from government, when upgrading supplies for EV charging.

I am currently having my house re-wired, which will include a dedicated 32A supply for EV charging to my garage. The main fuse is currently 80A, which is probably sufficient but I might see if the local power distribution company will upgrade it to 100A for free.
 
If you get charged for anything it will be the meter tails, the supply side is not responsible for them, they are 'owned' by your electricity supplier and unless they were installed to a higher spec than was required for your current 80A supply they will have to be upgraded before the fuse can go up to 100A...
 
Wow, sounds like you guys in Europe have it rough! Here in the US, the 100 Amp service my house has is considered old, with more modern installations having 200 Amp or even 400 Amp service. I know it’s not a direct comparison due to your 240 volt systems vs our 120, but still!
Hard to imagine anyone living with only 32 Amp installations in anything more than a 1 room apartment.
 
I didn't realize residential circuits were so small in the UK, and I lived there for 5 years. I guess with gas heat/water and no A/C, 60amp is probably fine. No chance that would work over here. Sounds like my 32amp (mid-day generation) solar would put a strain on many UK residential electrical panels.
 
I didn't realize residential circuits were so small in the UK, and I lived there for 5 years. I guess with gas heat/water and no A/C, 60amp is probably fine. No chance that would work over here. Sounds like my 32amp (mid-day generation) solar would put a strain on many UK residential electrical panels.
That's in older homes. It's also helped by using a proper voltage for everything, which allows for greater efficiency (and better kettles). Also, smaller houses and lower incomes meant fewer, smaller, more efficient appliances. My parents never had a dishwasher or dryer, for example. My wife considers my dad's house (and fridge) to be tiny.
 
USA-style 100A service is at 240V, and larger appliances (including EV charging) use the 240V. So comparing a USA 100A service to a UK 100A main fuse is a like-for-like comparison.

However, although 100A (or even 80A in some areas) is the maximum single phase service here, the difference is that larger services are provided at three-phase - so the next step up in the UK would be 3x60A or 3x100A. Both of those sizes are available in homes in the UK, and you do find them at larger properties, particularly those built with electric heating.

These larger services are less common here, being a combination of smaller typical house sizes, much less common use of electric heating and extremely rare use of air conditioning, also that where you do get whole-house electric heating it's typically night storage heating.

However, a separate issue where I don't have figures for the USA is how the supplier's equipment behind those service sizes are shared. A street of 10 houses each with 100A service will never have a 1000A-rated transformer and service cables supplying them - the supplier will assume there is some averaging out of the load between the properties on the street, and will also allow limited overloading: it's OK to run a 100A-rated transformer at 150A for an hour or so while everybody cooks dinner, so long as there's time for it to cool down again afterwards. There's also a factor that under UK conditions maximum demand is in cold weather, so the service equipment can take more load without overheating since the outdoor temperature on those peak demand days is that much colder (the opposite applies in many parts of USA where maximum demand is for aircon).

In the UK, typical numbers are that each of these houses with 100A service (23kW max) is assumed to draw on average no more than 2 to 3kW depending on the size of house (so 8-13A long term average).

This is all fine for traditional domestic loads, but runs into trouble with both EV charging and solar.

There's no difficulty in installing 32A (7kW) EV charging at each house within the 100A maximum, but if everybody plugged in as soon as they got home (which is already peak load time for cooking the dinner, warming up the house etc.) then there would be a problem with the total load. Significant trouble is being pushed off for a little while into the future by time-based tariffs: notably "Economy 7" with cheaper rates starting at (typically) midnight, after most people are asleep and other loads are very low, but at slightly higher levels of EV adoption there would still be a problem with everybody starting their charging at midnight. It is in fact possible to support very high levels of EV adoption without major upgrades to the system, but only if the charging is spread across the whole of the night-time low-demand period (and possibly a bit at low demand times in the daytime too): if you assume all cars are EVs and they all drive the same mileage as they do now (and look at average numbers of cars per household etc), then there is in fact enough capacity to charge them all during the E7 period. So a mechanism to allow cars to charge at the right time to suit the local distribution system is going to be critical to enable high levels of EV adoption.

The same problem arises in reverse with solar: there's no problem connecting one 32A system on a house with a 100A supply, but if everybody in the street did it then at times of low load the distribution network wouldn't have the capacity to feed that much back into the grid. This time the problem favours California over typical UK conditions: with nobody using aircon and most people away from home in the daytime, peak solar generation coincides with minimal load on the local network and so all of it needs to be fed back into the grid.
 
They are in the US. Electric companies see EVs as a major growth opportunity.
That's good to hear. It amuses me when i see people talking about hydrogen as I see that as a way that governments and fuel companies can control and add taxes onto the fuel like they do with petrol.

It will be interesting to see how, at least in the UK, they try to get their tax money (currently around 50% of our price per litre, £0.65, is tax) from EV charging. I would imagine it will come from highly increased road tax for EV cars.
 
You would think that the electricity companies would want to promote EV's as they will make more money.
They seem to be waiting for the government (by which I mean taxpayers) to pay for the necessary upgrades to their infrastructure. Given that it took a few decades for a UK government to decide to build one nuclear power station, I guess upgrades to the UK's electricity supply infrastructure may take some time. Everyone thinks that someone else will do it.

The oil companies seem to be more proactive in this respect: BP bought Chargemaster in June and Shell bought NewMotion last year.
 
It will be interesting to see how, at least in the UK, they try to get their tax money (currently around 50% of our price per litre, £0.65, is tax) from EV charging. I would imagine it will come from highly increased road tax for EV cars.
The recent "Automated and Electric Vehicles Act 2018" mandates the installation of smart charge points for electric vehicles. The legislation includes a requirement "to monitor and record energy consumption", so I guess HMRC could ask the electricity suppliers to collect taxes on the EV charging use, perhaps by applying a higher rate of VAT.
 
The recent "Automated and Electric Vehicles Act 2018" mandates the installation of smart charge points for electric vehicles. The legislation includes a requirement "to monitor and record energy consumption", so I guess HMRC could ask the electricity suppliers to collect taxes on the EV charging use, perhaps by applying a higher rate of VAT.
That literally makes me feel sick.