Full self driving FSD group buy?

[Knightshade]

To keep things in perspective, Tesla did have pretty steep price cuts on the Model 3 since release.

Yeah, they kinda didn't though because tax credit.

Hell it's more expensive today to get a P in some configs than it was in 2018.

T The federal tax credit was meant for the customers

Not sure why people keep saying that. It wasn't.


It's to encourage adoption of EVs. Nothing specific about how- other than one thing.

There's a limited number per manufacturer- not per customer.

Suggesting those who wrote it were pretty clearly understanding the manufacturers would be the ones capturing the incentive- and thus they limited it to start phasing out per manufacturer since presumably after 200k+ a given MFG would have their crap together.

but Tesla ended up basically having it built into their pricing and even further reduced it. EAP+FSD was $8k so package price is actually lower today.

Also no.

It's $9000 today.

When basic AP was made "included" they raised the car price $2000....it only "looks" free to people who weren't watching prices when the change was made... (and if you buy an SR and want basic AP it's what, $3000?)

Then FSD is another $7000.

So it's actually $1000-2000 more today than in the EAP+FSD for 8k days.

 

[WilliamG]

As much as I applaud the idea, a group buy for FSD is never going to happen. It will devalue FSD too much. After all, why buy FSD if there will be a group buy at some point? Tesla isn’t some mom and pop auto parts store, and given that the company is growing exponentially, this whole group buy thing is going to go nowhere if you ask me.

 

[azred]

A group buy for FSD at $3000? Sounds a little steep. Maybe a pallet of Costco butt wipe could be thrown in as a deal sweetener.

 

[lakerzs]

Yeah, they kinda didn't though because tax credit.

Hell it's more expensive today to get a P in some configs than it was in 2018.




Not sure why people keep saying that. It wasn't.


It's to encourage adoption of EVs. Nothing specific about how- other than one thing.

There's a limited number per manufacturer- not per customer.

Suggesting those who wrote it were pretty clearly understanding the manufacturers would be the ones capturing the incentive- and thus they limited it to start phasing out per manufacturer since presumably after 200k+ a given MFG would have their crap together.




Also no.

It's $9000 today.

When basic AP was made "included" they raised the car price $2000....it only "looks" free to people who weren't watching prices when the change was made... (and if you buy an SR and want basic AP it's what, $3000?)

Then FSD is another $7000.

So it's actually $1000-2000 more today than in the EAP+FSD for 8k days.

Not everyone qualified for the full $7500 federal tax rebate. You needed to have a tax liability exceeding that amount. Some people with small businesses or enough deductions or single filers who showed they made under $65k may not have gotten the full amount. Hell even a doctor who completed their training that previous year and a 250k+ salary the year of purchase may not have gotten the rebate as their income the previous year may have been too low.

I also wouldn't say the price is higher today. Comparing apples to apples:

-Today's AWD is $48,990 with basic AP. +$7k for FSD= $55,990
-AWD in 2018 was as high as $54,000. Would be + $3k to add basic AP = $57,000. +$7k FSD = $64k
- AWD 2018 w/EAP/ FSD prepurchased = $62k

Factor in increased taxes for a higher MSRP vehicle and the amount widens. Many got the $7500 fed rebate but not everyone.

 

[vickh]

Yeah, they kinda didn't though because tax credit.

Hell it's more expensive today to get a P in some configs than it was in 2018.




Not sure why people keep saying that. It wasn't.


It's to encourage adoption of EVs. Nothing specific about how- other than one thing.

There's a limited number per manufacturer- not per customer.

Suggesting those who wrote it were pretty clearly understanding the manufacturers would be the ones capturing the incentive- and thus they limited it to start phasing out per manufacturer since presumably after 200k+ a given MFG would have their crap together.




Also no.

It's $9000 today.

When basic AP was made "included" they raised the car price $2000....it only "looks" free to people who weren't watching prices when the change was made... (and if you buy an SR and want basic AP it's what, $3000?)
s.

Yes, SR+basic AP is $3000
maybe they'll offer a covid special

 

[Knightshade]

Not everyone qualified for the full $7500 federal tax rebate. You needed to have a tax liability exceeding that amount. Some people with small businesses or enough deductions or single filers who showed they made under $65k may not have gotten the full amount. Hell even a doctor who completed their training that previous year and a 250k+ salary the year of purchase may not have gotten the rebate as their income the previous year may have been too low.

Yes... but folks who bought a $65,000 car without making $65,000 in taxable income are going to be by far the minority.

I also wouldn't say the price is higher today. Comparing apples to apples:

I have. Repeatedly. But sure let's do it yet again.

-Today's AWD is $48,990 with basic AP. +$7k for FSD= $55,990
-AWD in 2018 was as high as $54,000. Would be + $3k to add basic AP = $57,000. +$7k FSD = $64k

Uh.... no.

Because in 2018 there was no such thing as 3k basic AP and 7k FSD.

- AWD 2018 w/EAP/ FSD prepurchased = $62k

Right.

Then the 2018 guy got back $7500 in tax rebates.

So 62k minus $7500= $54,500.

That's less than the $55,990 a new one costs.

Factor in increased taxes for a higher MSRP vehicle and the amount widens..

Not really. I mean, the gap is already $1500 in favor of the 2018 buyer... not to mention:

You forgot the destination charge is hundreds higher than it was in 2018.

You forgot there's about $500-1000 in hardware the 2018 car got the brand new one does not... (homelink, 14-50 adapter, auto-dimming side mirrors, frunk mat, phone cables, etc...)...


(also if he ordered early enough the 2018 guy has free lifetime connectivity- saving $120 every year over life of ownership AND increasing resale since it's transferable in 3rd party sales)



so again, the 2018 buyer net likely paid the same or less than the 2020 buyer. Yes with the exception of the tiny minority of folks who somehow bought a $65,000 MSRP car without $65,000 in annual taxable income.

(there'll also be some variance for color and wheel choices but those have changed repeatedly over time so best just go in both cases with "took the free ones" to make it easier)



Point being... the whole "OMG THE CARS SO MUCH CHEAPER NOW FOR ALL NEW BUYERS COMPARED TO 2018" narrative simply does not stand up to math.


If you wanna tell that story, you can head over to the S forums and discuss the P100D, a car for which it's actually true.

 

[ElectricIAC]

What about those of us that don't have standard AP? We would have to buy that for $3000 before we could buy FSD for $7000. I'm not willing to spend $10,000 on beta software. Those of us who opted not to buy EAP back in the day are really screwed now. Give me the whole package for $5000 like it was last March (I missed that sale) and I'm all in.

Same for SR buyers.

 

[SMAlset]

...
FSD is essentially free to Tesla. It’s in the app, requires a couple button presses and then over the air update. There is no benefit to them except for driving sales or adoption and Tesla has many more opportunities to do that rather then a random group buy... though I think Elon truly wants to protect the value idea with FSD by not offering discounts (or at least limiting them)....

I didn't know all the software engineers that have been working on FSD for the past how many years have been working for free! Those development costs and the cost of the chip design and production and labor to install for those upgrading does have a cost to the company. Departments have budgets. Not even essentially free to Tesla despite the OTA update ability to add it.

 

[SlimJim]

Yes, SR+basic AP is $3000
maybe they'll offer a covid special

haha...
I tweeted to Elon to hold a sale so I can spend my stimulus pkg money ($1200).

 

[TomT]

Somewhere between slim and none, leaning heavily toward none...

What's the chance we could get a group buy together for FSD?

 

[R1Fast]

$2k maybe. Already paid 5k for EAP and get most of the features of 'FSD' as it functions today.

Stop signs/lights may be around the corner but true FSD or robotaxi is still years away IMO. Even with 'feature set complete' it will take a few years for testing and FCC/DOT approval.

But yeah, would jump on another 50% off promo for an upgraded MCU and to have the car stop at lights/stop signs + eventual city driving.

 

[vickh]

Same for SR buyers.

hopefully we'll get a AP covid price soon. I wonder how sales are doing and we'll know Q1 soon