Further discussion and analysis on why the yoke is not good

[2putt4]

I really shouldn't add any fuel to the fire here, but this is obviously very relevant:

Kyle's friend Jordan spun out his Plaid and damaged at least two wheels and suspension components while driving around in track mode. You can see them discussing how the yoke came into play at 28:05. Kyle makes some more comments about the yoke later at 28:55.

I saw this video and laughed at the fact that an inexperienced driver, not knowing the dynamics of something with so much power and how it behaves in "Track Mode", tried it on hard acceleration in a turn. He explained his "theory" of how it happened and I'm sure that he is shocked and it hit him so quick. This is the reason why 99% of cars on the road are designed to understeer. 99% of drivers do not know how to react to an oversteer situation and manufacturers want you to plow into objects head-on so that there is more car to protect you on impact. If cars are designed to oversteer, this happens and impact is more likely to happen from the side. From his friend's explanation, it happened so quickly, and for those who have never drifted a car or experienced oversteer, will turn into the turn instead of counter steering. He didn't seem like someone who knows how to correct oversteer and said that by the time he grabbed the yoke he blamed it on its position.

I do agree that the yoke is not ideal for drifting cars but these are are not designed to be drifted without knowledge. To drift and handle an oversteer situation requires steering angle and proper throttle input. The amount of torque the plaid has on tap is so much different from ICE performance cars and even the best drivers need to figure out the proper input balance. I bet you any money that if you give him a 911 and have him do the same move with traction stability control off or limited, he will end up spinning it out control with or without a yoke. The dude is a tech geek who reviews EV's and is no Chris Harris. Any proper race driver will tell you that oversteering a car or drifting is for show and will not get you from point A to B the fastest. Hooliganism is meant for fun and to think that the Plaid is your AMG or M car hooligan kind of car is delusional. Leave track mode to professionals and on closed and safe tracks.

I don't agree when people use EXTREME examples like this to justify why the Yoke is bad. Kyle saying that the steering wheel is designed for situations like this, and I would like to see him drive any sports car on track and show all of us a proper and controlled drift. Tech YouTubers should not be educating anyone on the physics and capability of a car if they themselves have never drifted a car and particularly the car they are driving. His friend is an idiot for limiting traction and stability controls without knowing how it changes the car dynamically. I read and watch a lot of videos of how people correct oversteer and my first time doing it in my 911 I went side ways and spun out. Racing my M5 on track day at Sonoma raceway, I had the rear-end come out accelerating out of a turn and I quickly corrected but it never required any lock to lock steering input. I just had to counter steer 90-120deg without taking my hands off the 10&2 position.

The fact that Kyle does not like the Yoke is his opinion, but spare the situational BS where a steering wheel would be better in this case. Both should stick to range and tech testing review.

 

[2putt4]

Watching that video again, I don't think that even counter steering would have avoided that spinout. It happened so quick out of the turn because he put toooooo much throttle input (being a plaid) he didn't expect that much power to come through. He was merging and just gunned it. Reminds me of the stupid mustang drivers trying to show off out of car shows and apply too much throttle with the front wheels not straight. Same result. He did mention that he tried something similar before in his Miata and it spun out! evidence that this dude has no business turning off traction control on any car.

 

[TessP100D]

OMG, for once he agrees.

People still take it to the track and just like any other car, you have to know its limits. The $20k CCB brake option will be available soon for those who seriously track the car, but for those who say that a car of this price should include it as it is negligent of them not to do so considering the power, is plain delusional. These are street cars and is not claimed to be a track car. Same goes with BMW Mcars and Porsche’s. CCBs are an option and never come standard unless you get the turbo S variant. Even if you paid $20k for the CCB, you would still pay much less than a Turbo S that is north of $205k.

CCB’s are great for the street. not for the track. Big vented steel brakes are meant for the track. Yes… you can uses CCBs, but racers don’t. To expensive for a disposable part.

 

[phaphaphooey]

The Plaids brakes are fine for street driving. No doubt. However as a track car, they are sub-standard. So drive her on the street and be safe and happly.

Why in the world would you drive a Plaid on the track? That's like using a screwdriver to drive a nail. It may work but it is suboptimal. If you plan to track, do it in something other than a 5,000lb luxury car.

 

[2putt4]

CCB’s are great for the street. not for the track. Big vented steel brakes are meant for the track. Yes… you can uses CCBs, but racers don’t. To expensive for a disposable part.

CCB's are overkill for the streets and you may or may not stop any faster. Requires more brake input when wet and is expensive to replace although it has better longevity at 100,000 miles. Will be less, of course, if you abuse it on the track often. CCB's are actually ideal for the track because all steel brakes will fade over time. The reason why serious track junkies use CCB's is to eliminate brake fade so that they can go more laps. For most of us track day aficionados, steel brakes with stainless steel brake lines and performance pads/fluid is more than sufficient if you track it 5-10x a year and much cheaper solution. If you're doing it more often, going to CCB's will give you the most performance benefit. Car racing is not a cheap hobby so getting CCB's, just like track insurance, is a cost you should know going into it. One benefit to using CCB's on the street is eliminating brake dust. A cheaper solution is to ceramic coat your wheels and hose it down. Most people who get CCB's want the look and they rarely take the car to the track. Will you stop better? Theoretically yes, but it's designed to not fade. What will stop the plaid faster is larger rotors and more pistons to generate friction and brake pressure. CCB's provide that, but as described in the video about the plaid I posted earlier, our brakes are sufficient for street and every day use.

CCB's will kill your resale, why? It's more expensive to replace. If you're a rich dude buying a $120k car new and opt in for $20k CCB's makes sense, but when you sell it after your 5+ years and is now worth say $65k, the buyer may not want to shell another $13-18k to replace the rotors, so keep that in mind.

 

[2putt4]

Why in the world would you drive a Plaid on the track? That's like using a screwdriver to drive a nail. It may work but it is suboptimal. If you plan to track, do it in something other than a 5,000lb luxury car.

Not all people who track their cars do it in competition. Serious track day junkies have a dedicated track car(s) and some, like myself, who enjoy the 1-3x year track day with your buddies, use the cars we have. I had an F10 M5 Competition BMW and I tracked it... It's in a no-passing class and we're out there for enjoyment testing the dynamics and limits of our cars safely. If I were doing it competitively or try to beat a time, then I would be in my 911. Knowing that your car is capable is good enough for many.

 

[t00taloo]

the yoke on my model S is a joke, no matter what you say and how long you drive with it, it will never be a round steering wheel. i crashed almost twice with it, trying to park? forget about it.

 

[TessP100D]

CCB's are overkill for the streets and you may or may not stop any faster. Requires more brake input when wet and is expensive to replace although it has better longevity at 100,000 miles. Will be less, of course, if you abuse it on the track often. CCB's are actually ideal for the track because all steel brakes will fade over time. The reason why serious track junkies use CCB's is to eliminate brake fade so that they can go more laps. For most of us track day aficionados, steel brakes with stainless steel brake lines and performance pads/fluid is more than sufficient if you track it 5-10x a year and much cheaper solution. If you're doing it more often, going to CCB's will give you the most performance benefit. Car racing is not a cheap hobby so getting CCB's, just like track insurance, is a cost you should know going into it. One benefit to using CCB's on the street is eliminating brake dust. A cheaper solution is to ceramic coat your wheels and hose it down. Most people who get CCB's want the look and they rarely take the car to the track. Will you stop better? Theoretically yes, but it's designed to not fade. What will stop the plaid faster is larger rotors and more pistons to generate friction and brake pressure. CCB's provide that, but as described in the video about the plaid I posted earlier, our brakes are sufficient for street and every day use.

CCB's will kill your resale, why? It's more expensive to replace. If you're a rich dude buying a $120k car new and opt in for $20k CCB's makes sense, but when you sell it after your 5+ years and is now worth say $65k, the buyer may not want to shell another $13-18k to replace the rotors, so keep that in mind.

Sorry. Your off the deep end here. Serious racers do not use CCB’s. They use big steel brakes and have back up sets too. The first thing I did to my GT3 was remove the CCB,s and place them on the storage shelf. All good.

 

[2putt4]

the yoke on my model S is a joke, no matter what you say and how long you drive with it, it will never be a round steering wheel. i crashed almost twice with it, trying to park? forget about it.

You almost crashed it twice trying to park? Use auto park maybe. I don’t understand what people do to almost crash their yoke. What were you doing and how fast? Slow down maybe, there’s something called the brakes if you don’t feel comfortable with a maneuver.

 

[TessP100D]

Not all people who track their cars do it in competition. Serious track day junkies have a dedicated track car(s) and some, like myself, who enjoy the 1-3x year track day with your buddies, use the cars we have. I had an F10 M5 Competition BMW and I tracked it... It's in a no-passing class and we're out there for enjoyment testing the dynamics and limits of our cars safely. If I were doing it competitively or try to beat a time, then I would be in my 911. Knowing that your car is capable is good enough for many.

I’m glad to hear your getting training and experience for the track. It’s a great life. Keep up the good work.

 

[ForDesign]

You don't make any sense.

Are you going to expand on your Plaid resell loss or no?

 

[Unclepaul]

Little trick to make your yoke experience better is to allow the Tesla's self centering to allow the wheel to come back to center after making your turn. Only need to keep one finger on the yoke and it will return to center by itself. No need to use both hands to recenter after a turn.

While taking a bit to get used to, the Yoke certainly really opens up the spacious feeling for the driver.

 

[JaeTheDev]

Little trick to make your yoke experience better is to allow the Tesla's self centering to allow the wheel to come back to center after making your turn. Only need to keep one finger on the yoke and it will return to center by itself. No need to use both hands to recenter after a turn.

While taking a bit to get used to, the Yoke certainly really opens up the spacious feeling for the driver.

This is exactly what I do. Took me less than a day to figure this out. Agreed!

 

[WilliamG]

Little trick to make your yoke experience better is to allow the Tesla's self centering to allow the wheel to come back to center after making your turn. Only need to keep one finger on the yoke and it will return to center by itself. No need to use both hands to recenter after a turn.

While taking a bit to get used to, the Yoke certainly really opens up the spacious feeling for the driver.

The really funny part about this is that it’s true. The yoke is so unergonomic on turns that it’s easier to just not touch it at all.

Maybe Elon’s master plan is to make us hate the yoke so much that we all buy FSD.

 

[JaeTheDev]

The really funny part about this is that it’s true. The yoke is so unergonomic on turns that it’s easier to just not touch it at all.

Maybe Elon’s master plan is to make us hate the yoke so much that we all buy FSD.

I’ve always said the yoke is a thing on the S and X due to FSD. That being said, the first renderings of the Model 3 had a yoke present as well.

 

[BogeyGofler22]

I’ve always said the yoke is a thing on the S and X due to FSD. That being said, the first renderings of the Model 3 had a yoke present as well.

I've seen video of the yoke on FSD doing tight turns and parking... It's kinda scary... Will let you know in a month

 

[t00taloo]

You almost crashed it twice trying to park? Use auto park maybe. I don’t understand what people do to almost crash their yoke. What were you doing and how fast? Slow down maybe, there’s something called the brakes if you don’t feel comfortable with a maneuver.

I was going 5mph inside of a parking garage, the steering wheel fell out of my hand and emptied out. almost ran into a wall. was making right a turn into a street, steering wheel fell out of my hand and car crossed into the other side, thank god it was at night and it was empty. Why come with such attitude, always blaming the consumer when they have something to say about Tesla and its products. don't reinvent whats not broken.

 

[WilliamG]

I've seen video of the yoke on FSD doing tight turns and parking... It's kinda scary... Will let you know in a month

The yoke doing literally anything on FSD is terrifying. You can't grab it easily to correct it if it's midway through a turn/maneuver. You either watch the road or you watch the yoke. It's not possible to do both.

 

[Pdubs]

The yoke doing literally anything on FSD is terrifying. You can't grab it easily to correct it if it's midway through a turn/maneuver. You either watch the road or you watch the yoke. It's not possible to do both.

Keep your hands on the yoke in FSD like they tell you to and it's a non issue.

 

[WilliamG]

Keep your hands on the yoke in FSD like they tell you to and it's a non issue.

You can’t. If you live on simple streets where the yoke doesn’t turn much then maybe you can. But the yoke yanks back and forth by itself and if your hands are on it you’ll disable FSD by virtue of torquing it. This is not an issue with a steering wheel as you can let the wheel pass through your fingers while still being able to grab it as necessary.