To get Smart Grid charging working you require a HPWC (with some additions), that will never work with a UMC.
Smart Grid charging is becoming very popular in Europe since high power connections to the grid are very expensive.
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Smart Grid charging is becoming very popular in Europe since high power connections to the grid are very expensive.
digitaltim
Sig737 VIN628
An addressable switch is required for sure - not necessarily a HPWC - done today with HVAC, water heaters, etc. pretty simply.
mknox
Well-Known Member
In theory, it could with a controllable switch. It would be On/Off only whereas sophisticated EVSE may be able to "throttle" the charge level based on utility supply capabilities.
Got an update last night and the release notes specifically state that it now will monitor for any charging fluctuations and drop the amps it's pulling to help avoid problems with faulty house wiring. Sounds like a good feature to me, though I'd imagine pro-Tesla folks will see this as a evidence of Tesla going the extra mile for safety, while anti-Tesla will see it as tacit admission Tesla had some level of responsibility in the house fire.
> I leave the adapter in the wall and disconnect the UMC at the adapter before throwing it into the tote bag in the trunk. [JPP]
The adapter connection is one of the proven weak points of the UMC. If you are always switching adapters, say 120v at work and 240v at home then you are putting wear on these contacts. By any chance are these stock UK/Euro 240 volt wall plugs/sockets?
Disregard the "15 amp" rating on the sticker since this is the 120v adapter in the photo.
No satisfying metal to metal feel as you plug it in. Appears undersized compared to contacts in port plug (both carry the same load). Only way to tell if it can safely carry the 40 amps max is to feel for over heating.
The 14-50 Nema plugs however are hefty and you can feel and judge the connection quality as you plug it in. With a 'new' socket in the wall/box there should be no problems here, even after thousands of plug-ins. Remember to re-torque the wire connections after installing a new socket (like re-torquing lug nuts).
The other issue with the UMC is can the reed or solid state contactor reliably disconnect when necessary. Breakers and contactors are rated at so many thousands of amps of arc that can be interrupted reliably. Also I see no 'UL/CSA approved' on the label so to me that means use outdoors only.
LOL, my comment: "million dollar home, $100k car" was not by any means a description of Chez Wycolo, just a generalization to make a point. :biggrin:
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The adapter connection is one of the proven weak points of the UMC. If you are always switching adapters, say 120v at work and 240v at home then you are putting wear on these contacts. By any chance are these stock UK/Euro 240 volt wall plugs/sockets?
Disregard the "15 amp" rating on the sticker since this is the 120v adapter in the photo.
No satisfying metal to metal feel as you plug it in. Appears undersized compared to contacts in port plug (both carry the same load). Only way to tell if it can safely carry the 40 amps max is to feel for over heating.
The 14-50 Nema plugs however are hefty and you can feel and judge the connection quality as you plug it in. With a 'new' socket in the wall/box there should be no problems here, even after thousands of plug-ins. Remember to re-torque the wire connections after installing a new socket (like re-torquing lug nuts).
The other issue with the UMC is can the reed or solid state contactor reliably disconnect when necessary. Breakers and contactors are rated at so many thousands of amps of arc that can be interrupted reliably. Also I see no 'UL/CSA approved' on the label so to me that means use outdoors only.
LOL, my comment: "million dollar home, $100k car" was not by any means a description of Chez Wycolo, just a generalization to make a point. :biggrin:
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UL/CSA has nothing to do with indoor versus outdoor. For household devices the certification is required regardless of whether it is used indoors or out (although the component requirements may be different).
It is an automotive part so different rules apply. UL/CSA doesn't cover automotive systems. (A wired-in EVSE does require it, though.)
It is an automotive part so different rules apply. UL/CSA doesn't cover automotive systems. (A wired-in EVSE does require it, though.)
This is only true of many circuit breakers. Some are indeed rated for switch duty. CH breakers in particular are labeled "SWD" when they're rated as such.
My local power company is taxing me to the tune of $20/mo because I have offset their profits by installing a solar array on my house. They say it's because I'm "not paying my fair share" to maintain the grid. So now that I am, apparently, paying my "fair share" with this additional surcharge that was approved by our illustrious corporations commission, the electric company can take a flying hike as far as I'm concerned. Delay charging into the night and only charge at 40A to minimize impact to their precious grid that is now costing me an additional $20/mo to maintain? Please! I'll be damed if I'm going to do any favors for an electric utility that is already profitable, but which wants to further boost profits on the backs of responsible customers who are doing the right thing by investing in renewable power generation.
As far as 40A charging being somehow more efficient or easier on the car than a higher current level, I don't buy it. Our vehicles can take 120 kW from a supercharger, so drawing 19 kW from an HPWC at 80A is a mere 16% of what the battery system is capable of.
mknox
Well-Known Member
To be fair, electric utilities have to build and maintain electrical distribution systems to supply the maximum peak demand that the customer may draw, and there's a relationship between that peak demand and the service size. For example, if a building has a demand that would justify an 800 amp service, the utility will provide the wires, transformers etc. for an 800 amp service, but not for a 1600 amp service just because the customer may want to put in something larger. Why should other customers share the costs of heavier utility infrastructure (wires, transformers etc.) that are not being utilized? So far, so good, but then renewables like solar and wind come along.
Now the building with the 800 amp service and a solar system may "look" to the utility like a 400 amp service from both a loading and revenue standpoint. In theory that building should be supplied with a 400 amp service and associated utility infrastructure. But the intermittent nature of renewables usually means they still need the 800 amp service for those infrequent times that the solar system is not operating for one reason or another. So what you really have is a 400 amp service that the utility earns revenue on plus another 400 amp service "on standby". Again, to be fair to other customers, they shouldn't have to pay for heavier infrastructure that is essentially sitting on standby for one other customer. It looks like your utility charges a $20 standby charge which seems quite reasonable.
In terms of when you charge your car, and at what level, it is entirely up to you. The capacity from a utility standpoint should be there. The cost of power, however, will vary with demand throughout the day, and a lot of jurisdictions are employing Time-of-Use rates to reflect that. Higher overall peak demands could drive On-Peak rates higher, and Off-Peak rates lower, which for most people is enough of a motivation to shift their charging times, and EV's are very well suited to Off-Peak charging.
An even more ambitious solution would be for utilities to offer some sort of demand response technology that could throttle charging at certain peak times, and reward customers with incentives or even lower rates for participating.
I haven't read every post in the thread but this doesn't look like it's been posted yet. Click the link for the official Orange County Fire Authority incident report.
http://insideevs.com/tesla-mode-s-garage-fire-official-incident-report/
http://insideevs.com/tesla-mode-s-garage-fire-official-incident-report/
I noticed you're in Arizona and your post reminded of something I only learned of today from EV drivers beware, ALEC is coming for your solar power, specifically the crazy garbage mentioned at ALEC calls for penalties on solar-panel owners | Grist
Ridiculous! Somehow I'm not surprised about who the players are for the above crap.
Sorry to go somewhat OT...
Basically APS, our electric utility, wants us to pay the same amount of money for our power that we paid prior to installing solar. Whatever money we are saving with net metering APS now wants back. We saved over $1,000 this year on our electric bills after paying our solar lease. APS wanted to levy a $100/mo "tax" for solar users, essentially wiping out those savings. This is not about paying for the grid, it's about recouping lost profits. I still pay for maintaining the grid because my bills have always included a grid-tie fee.
What happened in Arizona is going to sweep the nation if it isn't stopped. ALEC is 100% responsible for pushing this agenda here and in other states. It is nothing more than a money grab. APS was even called out by our local news media for having lied in their advertisements. APS succeeded in fooling people into believing that non-solar customers are paying for solar customers' power, making APS look like they were advocating for fairness on behalf of their customers. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Good thing SolarCity (my solar supplier and I'm assuming yours as well) will be offering a battery setup in 2015. Then you can get off the grid altogether and they have no justification to charge you anything since you wouldn't be using their service at all.
Eventually, they'll have this situation cleaned up. I am one of the co-owners of my electric company (co-op
) and over the past 3 years we have been restructuring billing so that fixed infrastructure costs are included in the service/meter charge that everyone pays, and the variable charges represent the cost to purchase the power (before, some of the infrastructure costs were integrated in that variable power cost). As a result, if you have solar, all you do is offset some of that variable cost; you still pay for the infrastructure.Eventually, they'll have this situation cleaned up. I am one of the co-owners of my electric company (co-op
I think if there is going to be an infrastructure fee for everyone to pay in exchange for use of the grid, solar owners should get compensated for the value they offer the utilities. They offer a way, in the long run, to reduce base load production and the need for ultra expensive new power plants that have to meet new clean air and building standards. Solar production typically peaks during high demand times, it's really a win win. Some day Solar will go from being seen as a drag on the grid to complementary to it.
Raffy.Roma
Rome (Italy)
Tesla already worked out the issue mentioned by the OP
Charged EVs | Tesla software update protects against bad wiring
Charged EVs | Tesla software update protects against bad wiring
If you do, try to install the wired one. It has faster updates to turn off the 'away' of the thermostat, when you pull in the garage (if that's what you want).
mknox
Well-Known Member
Eventually, they'll have this situation cleaned up. I am one of the co-owners of my electric company (co-op
It really is an issue of traditional rate design. There are many components to electricity rates, but it is fair to think of it in two parts: the "commodity" being the actual electricity and the "delivery" being the lines, transformers, meters etc. to get it to your house. Think of it like a package you buy at Amazon. There is the item and there is the delivery.
Putting the cost of the commodity aside, which is well suited to a variable volumetric rate, utilities need to recover the costs associated with delivering the electricity, and this has been traditionally done via a volumetric rate based on how much you consume. With things like renewables (solar, wind etc) the economic model gets screwed up, and utilities aren't collecting enough of a delivery charge to cover costs.
As FlasherZ says, there has been a lot of discussion around going with totally fixed delivery costs. Currently, most utilities charge a small fixed fee plus a variable (consumption-based) charge to cover the delivery component. The problem becomes how much that totally fixed charge should be. It is probably a more fair method (just like fixed package delivery fees), but initially light users may pay more than before while heavier users would pay less.
Meanwhile, that bastion of thoroughly-researched journalism called the Wall Street Cheat Sheet ("when it comes to accuracy, we cheat!"), has a new article out about Tesla.
http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/tesla-answers-latest-model-s-fire-with-software-update.html
And it contains this utter nonsense:
There was a "December battery fire while a Model S was charging"? Oh? Where? When?
And this doozy:
This is just irresponsible BS from a two-bit freelancer who read somebody else's work (Green Car Reports, which never once mentions battery fire), misunderstood, didn't go do any research, and wrote an article with material falsehoods.
If you're up to it, be sure to tweet @EricSchaalNY and let him know how he needs to correct this pronto.
You can visit this link to let Wall Street Cheat Sheet's editorial team know what you think of their Tesla coverage.
http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/tesla-answers-latest-model-s-fire-with-software-update.html
And it contains this utter nonsense:
There was a "December battery fire while a Model S was charging"? Oh? Where? When?
And this doozy:
This is just irresponsible BS from a two-bit freelancer who read somebody else's work (Green Car Reports, which never once mentions battery fire), misunderstood, didn't go do any research, and wrote an article with material falsehoods.
If you're up to it, be sure to tweet @EricSchaalNY and let him know how he needs to correct this pronto.
You can visit this link to let Wall Street Cheat Sheet's editorial team know what you think of their Tesla coverage.
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