For starters, you can ask a question to Tesla.
https://twitter.com/tesla/status/1002627705219584000?s=21
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
- Status
https://twitter.com/tesla/status/1002627705219584000?s=21
sundaymorning
Active Member
I’m excited to hear about the shareholder meeting next week. I hope Elon drops us some hints about the 5k production rate.
tinm
2020 Model S LR+ Owner
This past week I was on a long train journey across the U.S. and had dinner in the dining car. They run the dining car community-style, meaning they seat you with other passengers. Got into a long talk about tech companies at our table, and one guy asks about Tesla. I say my piece about it, and he launches into a tirade that was like K-Tel's Classic Tesla FUD Hits, Vol. 1:
• Company is DOOMED, don't you know
• It's a PONZI scheme, can't you SEE?
• Elon is a CROOK! He's a LIAR! He's taking you all to the CLEANERS!
• They don't know what they're doing out there in SILICONE VALLEY!
• Company can NEVER manufacture vehicles in VOLUME, it's not IN them!
• Elon secretly is going to sell Tesla to the Chinese, just you WATCH! He's going to ram it right up their a**!
And on and on. He is now highly animated.
The SILICONE VALLEY line is the tell. He doesn't know s***.
Then it is revealed, he comes out with it, proudly, boastingly, to prove he knows what he is talking about: he is an auto dealer, he runs a big dealership, for Toyota, and has just returned from a national sales meeting for Toyota (oh can you imagine the FUD going on in that audience). The other two guests at our table, a husband and wife, look at each other, and then get up and quickly flee. They've had enough.
I point out that Toyota does not sell an electric car. Which triggers him to flip the LP and play Side 2 of K-Tel's Classic Tesla FUD Hits, Vol. 1:
• Toyota can build electric cars PLENTY, they can put MILLIONS and MILLIONS of them on the road whenever they CHOOSE to!
To which I state, so far they have not chosen to, have they. Hmm? I wonder why that might be, hmm? Perhaps they really do not know how, hmm? By the way how is Toyota's hydrogen fuel cell rolling-Hindenburg-on-wheels initiative going, anyway?
For once, he's quiet. To which I add, That is a dead end, the world will not embrace hydrogen. Ever.
To which he responds by changing the subject:
• We invented the PRIUS! We invented hybrids! Nearly every car we sell comes in hybrid form! We know what the world wants!
May be, I say, but Tesla knows what the world needs. What the world needs is a car with no gas tank and no exhaust pipe that runs clean. I see no evidence Toyota understands this, or cares.
To which he plays another K-Tel greatest hits track:
• The market does not DEMAND electric vehicles, they do not WANT them. It would be STUPID for Toyota to build them. Toyota chooses to be SMART, unlike ELON.
To which I state, Tesla is five to ten years beyond Toyota and every other manufacturer in terms of electric vehicles.
Cue the needle-scratching-against-the-record sound and another track starts:
• Tesla doesn't know how to MAKE CARS FOR THE WORLD do you not get it!? They make expensive car for the electric enthusiasts, a tiny group of hobbyists . . . like you.
To which I say, the great Toyota company has been around decades, many many decades. Lots of other car companies have been around for a hundred years or more. Tesla's been around for what, 15 years, and look at how bent out of shape they make you guys. Worried, maybe?
To which he replays an old track:
• They're a PONZI---
To which I interrupt and say, Look, what Toyota and everyone else does not understand is that to build EVs successfully you have to know software. Tesla knows software. Toyota doesn't know s*** about software. Neither does Ford or GM or any of them. They're years behind, and have no core competency in software. And Tesla is one big computer with dozens of processors throughout the car -- and throughout the battery. It's a completely different thing than a gas car.
• But Tesla can't manufacture them in VOLUME! Elon keeps saying 5000 Model 3s, how many times has he been wrong? He'll never do it!
To which I calmly state, well, we'll just see about that. Let's see where our friend Mr. Elon is in July or August. Once Tesla hits 5000 a week then what?
To which he plays another track:
• 5000 a WEEK? I thought it was a MONTH? 5000 a WEEK!? My god man, no way will he ever be able to make 5000 a WEEK, are you nuts? You're delusional!
At this point he's running on automatic, and just switches to Shuffle and old tracks start playing:
• Elon is going to sell to the CHINESE! The whole thing is a TRICK!
• You realize Tesla's just running the old NUMMI plant right? You know about that don't you?
• The Model 3 is a disaster, why can't you see it?
• Tesla is a PONZI SCHEME THROUGH AND THROUGH, why can't you see that!?
To which, as I stand up, ready to walk out of the dining car, having had enough earfuls of a Toyota dealership manager for one evening, I calmly say, "Let's see how things are in 60 days or so. Good night" and walk away.
I am so glad I never caught sight of him on the train after that.
• Company is DOOMED, don't you know
• It's a PONZI scheme, can't you SEE?
• Elon is a CROOK! He's a LIAR! He's taking you all to the CLEANERS!
• They don't know what they're doing out there in SILICONE VALLEY!
• Company can NEVER manufacture vehicles in VOLUME, it's not IN them!
• Elon secretly is going to sell Tesla to the Chinese, just you WATCH! He's going to ram it right up their a**!
And on and on. He is now highly animated.
The SILICONE VALLEY line is the tell. He doesn't know s***.
Then it is revealed, he comes out with it, proudly, boastingly, to prove he knows what he is talking about: he is an auto dealer, he runs a big dealership, for Toyota, and has just returned from a national sales meeting for Toyota (oh can you imagine the FUD going on in that audience). The other two guests at our table, a husband and wife, look at each other, and then get up and quickly flee. They've had enough.
I point out that Toyota does not sell an electric car. Which triggers him to flip the LP and play Side 2 of K-Tel's Classic Tesla FUD Hits, Vol. 1:
• Toyota can build electric cars PLENTY, they can put MILLIONS and MILLIONS of them on the road whenever they CHOOSE to!
To which I state, so far they have not chosen to, have they. Hmm? I wonder why that might be, hmm? Perhaps they really do not know how, hmm? By the way how is Toyota's hydrogen fuel cell rolling-Hindenburg-on-wheels initiative going, anyway?
For once, he's quiet. To which I add, That is a dead end, the world will not embrace hydrogen. Ever.
To which he responds by changing the subject:
• We invented the PRIUS! We invented hybrids! Nearly every car we sell comes in hybrid form! We know what the world wants!
May be, I say, but Tesla knows what the world needs. What the world needs is a car with no gas tank and no exhaust pipe that runs clean. I see no evidence Toyota understands this, or cares.
To which he plays another K-Tel greatest hits track:
• The market does not DEMAND electric vehicles, they do not WANT them. It would be STUPID for Toyota to build them. Toyota chooses to be SMART, unlike ELON.
To which I state, Tesla is five to ten years beyond Toyota and every other manufacturer in terms of electric vehicles.
Cue the needle-scratching-against-the-record sound and another track starts:
• Tesla doesn't know how to MAKE CARS FOR THE WORLD do you not get it!? They make expensive car for the electric enthusiasts, a tiny group of hobbyists . . . like you.
To which I say, the great Toyota company has been around decades, many many decades. Lots of other car companies have been around for a hundred years or more. Tesla's been around for what, 15 years, and look at how bent out of shape they make you guys. Worried, maybe?
To which he replays an old track:
• They're a PONZI---
To which I interrupt and say, Look, what Toyota and everyone else does not understand is that to build EVs successfully you have to know software. Tesla knows software. Toyota doesn't know s*** about software. Neither does Ford or GM or any of them. They're years behind, and have no core competency in software. And Tesla is one big computer with dozens of processors throughout the car -- and throughout the battery. It's a completely different thing than a gas car.
• But Tesla can't manufacture them in VOLUME! Elon keeps saying 5000 Model 3s, how many times has he been wrong? He'll never do it!
To which I calmly state, well, we'll just see about that. Let's see where our friend Mr. Elon is in July or August. Once Tesla hits 5000 a week then what?
To which he plays another track:
• 5000 a WEEK? I thought it was a MONTH? 5000 a WEEK!? My god man, no way will he ever be able to make 5000 a WEEK, are you nuts? You're delusional!
At this point he's running on automatic, and just switches to Shuffle and old tracks start playing:
• Elon is going to sell to the CHINESE! The whole thing is a TRICK!
• You realize Tesla's just running the old NUMMI plant right? You know about that don't you?
• The Model 3 is a disaster, why can't you see it?
• Tesla is a PONZI SCHEME THROUGH AND THROUGH, why can't you see that!?
To which, as I stand up, ready to walk out of the dining car, having had enough earfuls of a Toyota dealership manager for one evening, I calmly say, "Let's see how things are in 60 days or so. Good night" and walk away.
I am so glad I never caught sight of him on the train after that.
sundaymorning
Active Member
Only way to help us shut em up is to get us to 5k a week, Elon. Then 6,7-10k... will demolish their spirits. You should’ve told him Tesla was already at 5k a month.
sub
Active Member
Good story, thanks for the laughs. Two things I would definitely be selling right now if I were an owner. Auto dealerships and NFL franchises.
If people like this auto dealer who's understanding of Tesla only runs headline deep knew how foolish they look making these arguments, they will eventually but probably never admit their error. I've had similar, less confrontational conversations on the exact same topics with friends and acquaintances.
As they say, he who laughs last.
I'm just smiling and buying TSLA long.
Reminds me of my Toyota dealer. He’s a polite guy, he would never go on a tirade like that, but so far he only lost 1 car sale to Tesla (I bought a Tesla instead of a new Prius 2 years ago, and he knows that). Sometimes I talk to him while I get one of my two other cars serviced. His main argument is that a Mirai is much more convenient due to its rapid refuel possibility. That is brainwashing from his Toyota marketing department, we Tesla drivers know that Tesla’s recharging inconvenience is much less inconvenient in practice than what non-Tesla drivers think. The thing is, these guys truely believe their claims, and will need to be confronted in person with the hard truth. It will be too late for them to do anything about it.
.... What do you have against K-Tel?
I highly doubt that they ever shut up.
Lets get used to the fact that a lot of people earning their livelihood in the industry Tesla is disrupting as we speak. Change is not welcome with that people. They will search for any smart or stupid or made up argument they find against the move from ICE to EV to avoid facing reality.
The consequences may be pretty significant for them and their family if they are in a line of business other people say will shrink and one day almost disappear. The denial we hear is because they fear the consequences and impact on their livelihood, lifestyle and that they may not be able to participate, contribute and benefit and get lost.
This is existential for some of them and thats why they fight desperately against it. Arguments usually don't work well against fear and thats why its so challenging to discuss with them. If you face a threat people tend to run or fight. As of now they fight.
I have a very good friend who has been the top salesperson at the local Toyota dealership >20 years. When I received my first model S in 2013 I let him drive it and all he said was 'THIS is the future' and added that he hoped Toyota could partner with Tesla to 'deliver' the cars. Finally, he added that he was glad he was nearing retirement age. 
I don't really dig this theory.
Why in this case they just don't go long TSLA, and then retire when they go out of business and live from their TSLA investment...
Its change and not all people are able to adapt to it. Most will or will be forced to but a group will be left behind. Investing in Tesla is another level. If 95% of all media and Analyst talk negative you need a certain level of experience and independent thinking in order to be able to invest in the stock market "against all odds". Its human nature to do what the group you are in is doing as its been proven that by doing that your chances to survive are higher. Thats as long true as a disruption is not happening.
As I travel from Paris to Normandy by train today to fulfill a bucket list dream to pay homage to the brave men who fought and died on the beaches of Normandy and across Europe to free the world from the reign of Nazi terror, I couldn't help but draw a comparison with Tesla since the shareholder meeting falls on the anniversary of that fateful day of days.
The original roadster overcame great odds to establish a beachhead in ICE/old energy Axis-occupied territory.
The Tesla S then fought through brutal resistance in hedgerow country filled with FUD mines and 88s before breaking out and racing across France.
Now, the Model 3 is facing the last gasp counterattack of the Axis powers of ICE and old energy. This is Tesla's Battle of the Bulge and Fremont and GF1 are its Bastogne in Production Hell and surrounded by The Axis, which has thrown every FUD panzer and SS battalion it has into this last ditch effort to stop the Tesla advance. But, like Patton's Third Army, the Tesla employees and general staff are racing to to the rescue and are about to break the siege with production approaching 5000 cars per week! And of course Elon is telling the enemy "Nuts!"
The end is near for the ICE & old energy Axis no matter how hard its propaganda ministry (mainstream media and shorts) tries to paint a different picture. And may the Shorts suffer a similar Berlin bunker fate!
How does the Model X fit into this metaphor you may be asking? Think Operation Market Garden. LOL
PS. After 9 days in Paris I finally saw my first Tesla S. I was getting frustrated by the absence of any sightings since I knew the City of Lights had both a store and a supercharger station. Finally, at the last possible moment on my ride to Gare St. Lazare, I spied a beautiful black S 2.0!
The original roadster overcame great odds to establish a beachhead in ICE/old energy Axis-occupied territory.
The Tesla S then fought through brutal resistance in hedgerow country filled with FUD mines and 88s before breaking out and racing across France.
Now, the Model 3 is facing the last gasp counterattack of the Axis powers of ICE and old energy. This is Tesla's Battle of the Bulge and Fremont and GF1 are its Bastogne in Production Hell and surrounded by The Axis, which has thrown every FUD panzer and SS battalion it has into this last ditch effort to stop the Tesla advance. But, like Patton's Third Army, the Tesla employees and general staff are racing to to the rescue and are about to break the siege with production approaching 5000 cars per week! And of course Elon is telling the enemy "Nuts!"
The end is near for the ICE & old energy Axis no matter how hard its propaganda ministry (mainstream media and shorts) tries to paint a different picture. And may the Shorts suffer a similar Berlin bunker fate!
How does the Model X fit into this metaphor you may be asking? Think Operation Market Garden. LOL
PS. After 9 days in Paris I finally saw my first Tesla S. I was getting frustrated by the absence of any sightings since I knew the City of Lights had both a store and a supercharger station. Finally, at the last possible moment on my ride to Gare St. Lazare, I spied a beautiful black S 2.0!
People in general are not rational.
Rationality is a rare and very brief spark that shines from time to time, here or there.
Not any singular person ever could be described as rational in full meaning of the word. Even the greatest thinkers and scientist were full of it, we just forgot all the nonsense and hold onto their rare rational sparks.
And no, people also do not change. To change is to die the old and born a new. No old accepts the incoming death without resistance.
Rationality be damned, future wellfare be damned.
Thanks
Some say factories and production were the foundation of that favorable outcome.
Reciprocity
Active Member
The negative news cycle theory:
I have only been following Tesla closely for 2 years, but before that I recall must of the articles where positive. There was always the cash burn, Bob Lutz and Jim Cramer crap but in general the news was positive. This was after the model X ramp had really started to pickup. Me theory is that during ramps there is a lot of negative news due to how difficult the task is. Even good news is being presented as bad news. One example is that every time there is a production shutdown to improve the ramp, the news spins it as though it was not planned and that it's trouble for the production ramp. Completely ignoring Tesla's comments to the contrary and even included in the quarterly earnings presentation. Even though evidence shows that sheet each shutdown, production had a noticable step up shortly after coming back online.
In a positive cycle, that news would focus on the improvements from previous shutdowns. I think the news cycle will turn positive again soon as model 3 ramp continues to be positive. More than likely by years end and into next year with a couple of profitable qtrs in the books. This could a perfect storm for long term gains.
I have only been following Tesla closely for 2 years, but before that I recall must of the articles where positive. There was always the cash burn, Bob Lutz and Jim Cramer crap but in general the news was positive. This was after the model X ramp had really started to pickup. Me theory is that during ramps there is a lot of negative news due to how difficult the task is. Even good news is being presented as bad news. One example is that every time there is a production shutdown to improve the ramp, the news spins it as though it was not planned and that it's trouble for the production ramp. Completely ignoring Tesla's comments to the contrary and even included in the quarterly earnings presentation. Even though evidence shows that sheet each shutdown, production had a noticable step up shortly after coming back online.
In a positive cycle, that news would focus on the improvements from previous shutdowns. I think the news cycle will turn positive again soon as model 3 ramp continues to be positive. More than likely by years end and into next year with a couple of profitable qtrs in the books. This could a perfect storm for long term gains.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Article
