General Range Advice

[dgpcolorado]

Be prepared for long Supercharging lines in Oregon during the eclipse mania.... it seems like every other Californian is heading up there, can you imagine the mayhem?

My sister has warned me about that! But I won't be going anywhere on the 21st so I think it won't be that big of a deal several days before or after. Might be wrong about that...

I used to live in Idaho, the winds can be intense, I can imagine starting out a trip thinking you have the range and then... wham, you've got a 50 mph headwind and you are in the middle of the desert wishing you had a gas can.... I mean spare battery.

I've been lucky to not hit headwinds westbound in southern Idaho. However, I have had to deal with strong headwinds elsewhere and learned that when I fall below my energy plot estimate to slow down right away, rather than waiting, unless I know from experience that I can make it.

 

[Unchangeable]

I used to live in Idaho, the winds can be intense, I can imagine starting out a trip thinking you have the range and then... wham, you've got a 50 mph headwind and you are in the middle of the desert wishing you had a gas can.... I mean spare battery

But all these travelling assumptions I have seen with range never include other non Tesla chargers that may or may not be on whatever gaps there are. So you might need to pull into a level 2 charger after the wind kicks up, still not ideal but you won't need a tow..

 

[pkalhan]

Also you ll likely lose 5-10 miles of range in the first year of ownership of the car due to regular battery degradation.

Is that true? You lose 5 to 10 miles in the first year due to battery degradation? Is it just me or does that sound like a lot??

 

[gregincal]

Is that true? You lose 5 to 10 miles in the first year due to battery degradation? Is it just me or does that sound like a lot??

My experience was that my car was rated for 265 miles, but when new it charged to over 270 miles. Within about 6 months or so it dropped to 265 miles and then over the next 4 years to 255 miles. I've been very happy with the degradation. But different people seem to have had different experiences.

 

[Sudre]

It should be easy for a Tesla Model S60 to make most all distances between superchargers right? I easily get 170-180 miles out of a charge in nice weather because I chose the 19" tires instead of the more grippy 21s plus I don't mind doing the crazy thing and driving the speed limit. Well a 25mph constant head wind in Kansas between the Goodland and Hays superchargers was an equivalent 100MPH at the speed limit and left me at 0 miles when I pulled in to charge. Get the long range version.

A few other notes.... You will get to know the car. On that segment of the trip I knew it was close and after driving her so many years I knew halfway to Hays I was going to be 4 miles short even tho I charged fully. I slowed down at that point to 70mph, the common travel speed of others drivers was 80. After driving another 1/4 of the distance I knew I was going to be 2 miles short of making it so I slowed down to 65. I was having no luck. The last quarter of the drive it also started to rain. That is why I pulled in at 0 even tho I kept slowing which should have drastically increased my range. It was only 143 miles between chargers.

Each time I ran the numbers through my head I was doing it because I was passing a campground with a 50 amp plug where I could top up if needed. A simple stop for 30 minutes would have added 15 miles and instead of pulling in at 0 miles I could have had a much more comfortable 15 miles. Remember that as long as you have your charge cord with you a campground with a 50 amp plug will be a faster charging source than a public charger. Public chargers are typically at best around 20 miles per hour because the voltage is only 208 not 240 that is found at a campground.

My wife is getting a Model 3 and she will be getting the long range version. I am hoping to hear more info on the dual motor because it will probably add even more distance because of the efficiencies.

And it is true that your range losses in the first year are the most. After that it seems to hardly drop at all. I think I may have lost an additional mile per year after the first year. There is some kind of break-in period for the batteries I think in the first year... altho Tesla now has "aging rooms" for the batteries so maybe that won't happen with the Model 3.

 

[David99]

I've driven my S 125k miles and the majority of it on road trips. I learned a lot and wrote about it here in several posts and made a comprehensive video about it on my YouTube channel (sharkcookie.ev)
Based on my experience I agree with most of what has been said. The real range for road trips is somewhat lower. The more total range you have on your battery the easier and quicker your entire road trip. I knew I was going to drive a lot in my Model S so I opted for the largest battery available at the time despite $8000 extra. It was the right decision!

Having said that I don't recommend everyone to do the same. Most people do not drive as much as I do. They take very few road trips in their cars and the trips they do are much shorter than my crazy 1000-4000 mile trips. If you are an average driver that uses his or her car for the daily commute and the occasional trip here and there, the extra cost for the long range is not worth it. Is waiting an extra 30 min to charge all the way a few times in a year worth $9000? Maybe once or twice a year you have to go slow in bad winter weather to conserve range. Oh well, maybe going slow in bad weather isn't such a bad idea anyways

My point is, think about what you are really getting for the extra money. If you are a true road worrier and drive 40 miles a year, for sure, pick the long range version. For the normal driver, I'd say take the extra money and spend it in solar panels, a power wall or some other good use.

 

[drewpost]

So why does the range suffer when it rains? Is it the increased friction between the tyres and road?

 

[KarenRei]

Living in upstate NY where we go a month or ore without going above freezing, it is important to learn the actual mileage impact of both running the heater and simply driving in cold weather. This was a real eye-opener.

On the opposite side, it's important to realize that there's a big difference between energy used early on while the pack is heating up, and energy used while cruising after the pack has heated up. If you preheat the car while on mains power, it makes a big difference. Colder tires - until they warm up - will also increase your energy consumption.

Also note that it's not simply cold that leads to people reporting range loss in winter; it's also snow, and it's important to separate the two. Plowing through deep snow is a big energy consumer, so if you're doing that for your entire drive, expect a strongly reduced range. On the other hand, if only your local neighborhood streets are snow covered and then you get onto cleared highways, that's not that big of a deal.

If you look at purely range loss with a preheated battery pack and no snow, it's not as bad as was presented. Play around with the range calculator for the Model S over on Tesla's site to get a sense of it:

Model S | Tesla

You'll notice that, with a preheated pack and no snow, speed has a much greater impact on range than temperature. Just keep those caveats in mind. Also keep in mind that you'll lose a bit of range as the vehicle ages (although Tesla is better with pack longevity than most of its competitors, most range degradation isn't very severe)

If you don't want to preheat the battery (although you should), you can engage range mode, which will limit how much the battery heater is used while you drive. The downside is that it'll be longer before you can use regen (recharging when batteries are below freezing is devastating for their lifespan, so Tesla prevents this)

One more thing: snow and ice on your vehicle affects weight, but more importantly, aerodynamics. This will be even more important with Model 3 than with S/X. So keep your vehicle clear if you want to maximize range!

 

[KarenRei]

So why does the range suffer when it rains? Is it the increased friction between the tyres and road?

Static friction is actually a good thing. Slip is bad. And water decreases friction.

Contrary to what most people expect, the main reason you lose range on wet roads (note: not standing water) is that it cools the tires, which increases hysteresis losses in the rubber (losing energy to rubber flexure).

 

[KarenRei]

Is that true? You lose 5 to 10 miles in the first year due to battery degradation? Is it just me or does that sound like a lot??

Average is 4% capacity loss in the first year, according to collected data, although there's a good bit of variation. That would be 9 miles on a 220mi M3.

MaxRange Tesla Battery Survey

Click on "charts" (final page). Current snapshot:

 

[KarenRei]

One more, this time for pack age rather than miles (and with the scale zoomed in):

The furthest-right datapoints are about 4 1/2 years old. The average there would be about be about 207mi (13 miles lost range) for a M3 SR.

 

[donkemaen]

My worst case scenario is 60 miles to our cabin in -14 Fahrenheit (-10 C). Car standing idle for a week. Then it being 0 Fahrenheit when starting our return. 500 meters ascent/descent. I was initially thinking that short range would do for me?

 

[KarenRei]

Go into energy saving mode when parked, definitely don't have the cabin temperature maintained. Bjørn Nyland tried it out while parked at an airport in Norway in the winter and experienced only 1% loss per day:

Tesla Model S Vampire Drain Results After 27 Days Unplugged

Have the pack preheated on your way out. 500m ascent on M3 is probably 12 miles range loss (lighter vehicle than MS) on the way up, and (depending on how much you regen vs. roll), 8-11 miles regained on the way home. To be more specific about how you'd fare it'd be good to know more about your route specifically. Should be fine, but let's take a more detailed look to be sure Include what areas are likely to be covered in snow that you have to crunch through, rather than just icy. With an exact route we could also point out possible places to charge at if you feel you're not going as far as you expected for some reason or another.

 

[tomas]

dI just wanted to make a thread to give some general advice to those who may be new to Tesla or EV. Hopefully this will help you determine which version of the Model 3 to buy and also set the right expectations.

Importantly I will focus this discussion on the use of the Model 3 on road trips, where range is an important consideration. Unless your daily commute is well over 100 miles or if you can't charge at home, range is only an issue on road trips.

Overall, here are the main points:

• You don't really charge to 100% on a road trip, except when you leave home.
• Your travel speed, especially when above 70mph, significantly reduces range.
• Cold temperature significantly reduces range.
• Rain significantly reduces range.

(1)
You can't really think about the 100% range since you will rarely ever charge to 100%. This is because it takes about the same amount of time to SC from 80-100% as it does from 0-80%. Unless you are willing and must wait for 40 additional minutes to get to 100%, it's just not worth it and will add so much time to your travel time. Moreover, you probably don't want to arrive at your destination with 0% either... most people probably want a 10% buffer. So assuming you charge to 80% at SCs, you really only have 70% range to work with. Or 80% range if you charge to 90%.

Also you ll likely lose 5-10 miles of range in the first year of ownership of the car due to regular battery degradation. Let's just say 5 miles, and say 80% of range on your road trip, we have 215*0.8 = 172 miles.

(2)
The above assumes you travel between 65-70 mph on pretty flat land... if you want to travel at 75mph, probably need to take 10% range off, and more if you want to go even faster.

(3)
Alright, cold weather REALLY reduces range, like super significantly. I live in the South so temp is rarely ever at or below freezing. In the spring-fall months, I average 260's to 270's power usage on my daily commute (20 miles each way). On the few days a year where it's close to freezing (30'sF or <5C), I see above 400 power usage because of the need to use heat... that's almost 50% more power usage per mile, with corresponding range decrease.

Of course commuting is different from road tripping since being in traffic in cold weather is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE for range, since you are not moving that many miles but using tons of power to heat the car. Regardless, when it's below 50F, your range starts to decrease and significantly so as it gets colder.

Basically in winter months, to feel somewhat comfortable, you need to have a LOT more rated range than where you are trying to go... and if you run into traffic, good luck... Of course you can just wear your winter jacket and shoes and just use the heated seats. Power usage will still be higher than in the summer but significantly better than having the heat on.

(4)
Rule of thumb is that rain decreases range by about 10%. It's probably a little better or worse depending on how heavy the rain is.

So if you have a 220 range Model 3, your reasonable max road trip range between SCs is actually around 172 miles, assuming you are going at 65-70mph, pretty smooth driving (not much stop and go), flat land, great weather, no rain, definitely not cold.

If it's 40F and raining... I would start to feel uncomfortable if the distance between SCs is more than 130 miles...

Agree with the factors (need to add wind and elevation changes - also big impact), but in my opinion these numbers are a little conservative. Which is probably OK, as those on the fence should get the LR. I also think it is important that new EV drivers know how they can positively impact range.

1) on road trips, slow down. Drive 70 instead of 80 or 65 instead of 75. Time lost is recouped with less charging time, so no net impact on time to destination.

2) cold weather losses are bad around town, but nowhere near this severe in highway driving if you a) park in heated garage, b) preheat car before departure, c) use seat heater more and cabin heat less.

This gets a little complex... but for road tripping in cold weather you will charge overnight and start out day at 100% and your first leg in a SR could be up to 175. Subsequent legs depend on how long you SC and of course location of SCs.

If you are dying for a Tesla but really cannot swing the 9k extra for LR, you should be OK except maybe in coldest climate with long daily commute. You may have to adjust driving style a bit for some trips. But you won't regret it... once you go EV it is hard to go back.

 

[internalaudit]

Good to know about the approximate 5% battery degradation each year.

At 0 to 5F, how much of the driving range as a percentage is cut during mainly highway driving if only heated seats and heated steering wheel are turned on? What about when cabin heating is on in RANGE mode (presumably ECO mode)?

My wife does a 130 -140 miles round trip commute once a week and was wondering if the 220 mile 3 will be good enough during winter even if she uses cabin heating (women in my household are more finicky and may not stick with heated seats and steering wheel to increase driving range). So without cabin heating, it can easily be done?

She says her employer no longer has charging stations but will have to make her double check.

 

[gregincal]

Static friction is actually a good thing. Slip is bad. And water decreases friction.

Contrary to what most people expect, the main reason you lose range on wet roads (note: not standing water) is that it cools the tires, which increases hysteresis losses in the rubber (losing energy to rubber flexure).

Yeah, there's rain and there's rain. I'm often facing at least some amount of standing water when it rains here, and that's the true range killer. It takes a lot of energy for the tires to push the water away.

 

[SageBrush]

It takes a lot of energy for the tires to push the water away.

Not to mention throw it up in the air.

 

[jbcarioca]

Is that true? You lose 5 to 10 miles in the first year due to battery degradation? Is it just me or does that sound like a lot??

Part of what seems to be degradation is often just calibration. My P85D at 30,000 miles and 2 1/2 years still has the same ~260/263 range at 100% that it did when new.

The same factors that alter range in ICE do so in EV, but in ICE people usually don't notice. In winter conditions preheating the car while connected dramatically reduces impact of cold. Using heated seats helps too. Once one becomes used to driving a BEV, especially a Tesla, it becomes second nature. Frankly my range is less than my Tesla's. In addition charging can usually be done while shopping, eating, or sleeping. That cannot be done so easily with an ICE. As others have mentioned the gaps are getting smaller every month.

Almost everywhere heavily populated in Western Europe and US/Canada is already very easy to deal with. The gaps are rapidly being filled. In China ,Japan , Eastern Europe and much of Canada there are gaps that will remain for some time. A quick look at Tesla Supercharger shows the present and currently planned coverage. Of course there are Supercharger free continents South America and Africa, but even those will come.

The point of my long post is that living with Tesla is living with continuous improvement in every respect, including charging.

 

[donkemaen]

Go into energy saving mode when parked, definitely don't have the cabin temperature maintained. Bjørn Nyland tried it out while parked at an airport in Norway in the winter and experienced only 1% loss per day:

Tesla Model S Vampire Drain Results After 27 Days Unplugged

Have the pack preheated on your way out. 500m ascent on M3 is probably 12 miles range loss (lighter vehicle than MS) on the way up, and (depending on how much you regen vs. roll), 8-11 miles regained on the way home. To be more specific about how you'd fare it'd be good to know more about your route specifically. Should be fine, but let's take a more detailed look to be sure Include what areas are likely to be covered in snow that you have to crunch through, rather than just icy. With an exact route we could also point out possible places to charge at if you feel you're not going as far as you expected for some reason or another.

Thanks for the reply! I forgot one important part, I can not pre heat my car on the way home. Our cabin is 250m from the road :S
About your question about snow on the road, there is alot of traffic on it so no need to plough But 20 miles can get icy and bumpy under the right conditions.

So basically its not being able to preheat I'm most worried about.

 

[SageBrush]

Of course there are Supercharger free continents South America and Africa, but even those will come.

If I cannot drive my car to Africa, what good is it ? I may have to rethink my Tesla plans.