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A Nema 14-50 outlet in a garage. Away from any garden hoses etc.Define EV charger?
That’s an advertisement, not the compliance code manual. And why would you put a 14-50 plug if it’s a dedicated EV outlet. Welders are 240v only and they have a 6-50 plug. Compressors use a 6-50 plug. At what point would you want a 14-50 plug to run a 240v appliance. As soon as anyone puts a 14-50 plug in a garage you are going to pay a tesla tax. It’s got to the point people are obsessed with a 14-50 outlets, follow the code for your Provence for a 240v dedicated outlet. The breaker is not an exact science.
For those that are interested, breakers can be all over the place with regards to trip sensitivity. But below is the minimum requirements.
At 110% rated current they must trip within 8 hours.
At 135% trip within 1 hour.
At 200% trip within 2 minutes.
A GFCI does nothing to change that.
Its a redundant step, usually put in by inspectors if they cannot visually inspect the wire or they suspect the wiring is compromised. For liability they can ask you to put a GFCI breaker in. I wouldn’t do it voluntarily because I need my car to charge.
That’s an advertisement, not the compliance code manual. And why would you put a 14-50 plug if it’s a dedicated EV outlet. Welders are 240v only and they have a 6-50 plug. Compressors use a 6-50 plug. At what point would you want a 14-50 plug to run a 240v appliance. As soon as anyone puts a 14-50 plug in a garage you are going to pay a tesla tax. It’s got to the point people are obsessed with a 14-50 outlets, follow the code for your Provence for a 240v dedicated outlet. The breaker is not an exact science.
For those that are interested, breakers can be all over the place with regards to trip sensitivity. But below is the minimum requirements.
At 110% rated current they must trip within 8 hours.
At 135% trip within 1 hour.
At 200% trip within 2 minutes.
A GFCI does nothing to change that.
Its a redundant step, usually put in by inspectors if they cannot visually inspect the wire or they suspect the wiring is compromised. For liability they can ask you to put a GFCI breaker in. I wouldn’t do it voluntarily because I need my car to charge.
Gen 3 HPWC 48a draw with 60A circuit minimum 6AWG copper. If over 60 ft consider going 4 awg. Running cable in conduit is usually always cheaper than armored. Conduit only needs to be in exposed areas but I would just run it all the way anyhow. Plus much easier to work with. 4 AWG is really really hard to work with if going into a socket receptacle, at that point I would put it into a secondary panel and run 6 AWG. Also if more than 40A you have to have a disconnect, the secondary pannel would cover that as well. If you are really lucky you will find someone pulling out a hot-tub. They usually run 3 core 6 awg and have a breaker box for a disconnect and you used to be able to buy the wiring for next to nothing. Been a few years since I had to buy anything so not sure now.
In a nutshell, for a shorter run 6 awg is fine for 60A circuit.
Gen 3 HPWC 48a draw with 60A circuit minimum 6AWG copper. If over 60 ft consider going 4 awg. Running cable in conduit is usually always cheaper than armored. Conduit only needs to be in exposed areas but I would just run it all the way anyhow. Plus much easier to work with. 4 AWG is really really hard to work with if going into a socket receptacle, at that point I would put it into a secondary panel and run 6 AWG. Also if more than 40A you have to have a disconnect, the secondary pannel would cover that as well. If you are really lucky you will find someone pulling out a hot-tub. They usually run 3 core 6 awg and have a breaker box for a disconnect and you used to be able to buy the wiring for next to nothing. Been a few years since I had to buy anything so not sure now.
In a nutshell, for a shorter run 6 awg is fine for 60A circuit.
Stay away from NMD90. It is rated for only 55A. If you need to use a sheath cable use NMWU90 - that is rated for 60A.A few more questions, either going to run a 50amp or 60amp circuit, after measuring will likely be somewhere between 40-50 feet of run.
1. Can I run two wires in the conduit if I wanted to have two down the line, or separate conduits?
2. Is it NMD90 6/3 wire for instance if I did go with a 14-50 instead of hardwired or 6-50?
3. Thought I read a disconnect is only needed for > 60amps (NEC 625.43)?
I'm I'm going to run it through a pvc conduit, what cable do you recommend? Not sure if I need a sheath or not.Stay away from NMD90. It is rated for only 55A. If you need to use a sheath cable use NMWU90 - that is rated for 60A.
May not be relevant to your install but if your conduit goes underground you must use underground rated cable (NMWU).
A tip of advice. You will need disconnecting means at the or near the outlet, Terminate the cable in a small 100A rated panel, then proceed to the receptacle from another breaker. It will give you the code requirements necessary.
Stay away from NMD90. It is rated for only 55A. If you need to use a sheath cable use NMWU90 - that is rated for 60A.
May not be relevant to your install but if your conduit goes underground you must use underground rated cable (NMWU).
A tip of advice. You will need disconnecting means at the or near the outlet, Terminate the cable in a small 100A rated panel, then proceed to the receptacle from another breaker. It will give you the code requirements necessary.
The 50A are more expensive, but you need that extra amperage. With the 40A, you’ll only be able to pull 30A effective, and that’ll slow your rate of charge.Man, seems the more I research and/or ask electricians, the more different answers I get!
Just spoke to Oneil electric, they said the NMD90 6/3 is definitely rated for 60 amps (up to 65 I think he said and the 8/3 is rated to 55 amps). Which would seem to agree to this: Romex NMD90-6/3-300 Type NMD90 Non-Metallic Sheathed Building Wire, 300 VAC, (3) 6 AWG Copper Conductor, 300 ft L, White
They also recommended a 2 pole 40amp vs a 50amp breaker (though that might be because they are out of the 50 amps?).
I don't seem to see anyone putting in a panel/disconnect for a 50amp breaker nor has any electrician quoted one? Can you point to the specific code requirement so that I can show that as they all think I'm nuts.
Why would you just do a 50A breaker with a 14-50 receptacle if you want to go with HPWC at 60A later? If you do it this way, it means you will throw away the receptacle and 50A breaker and waste your money - a heavy duty 14-50 receptacle like Hubbell will likely cost you over $100. Going straight to HPWC on a 60A breaker would not cost you much more.Not sure if you're referring to me as a Troll (I trust not), but the first guy I spoke to yes, I said Tesla, the last guy, I simply said an Electric vehicle.
Here's what I want:
- Nema 14-50 plug (run will be ~40 feet)
- 50 amp breaker
- wire it so that in the future if I wanted to up it to 60 amp and install something like the Tesla wall charger and direct wire it, that wouldn't be an issue, outside of possibly changing the breaker.
Not sure if I will ever go the HPWC route. So figured I'd run a wire that could handle the load if I ever do want to move to 60 amp/HPWC.Why would you just do a 50A breaker with a 14-50 receptacle if you want to go with HPWC at 60A later? If you do it this way, it means you will throw away the receptacle and 50A breaker and waste your money - a heavy duty 14-50 receptacle like Hubbell will likely cost you over $100. Going straight to HPWC on a 60A breaker would not cost you much more.