Hard to Brake in Neutral meaning?

[CASE01]

So I have seen an increase in my Wh/mi hovering around 400-450Wh/mi in SoCal on city streets at speeds of 35-45mph. I read somewhere that the emergency/parking brake could be stuck, so I should try and put the car in neutral while driving and see if it "coasts."

Well, it 100% coasts and it's kind of scary how fast and well it does. But, when I attempt to brake, it's MUCH harder than I expected. Like I almost have to SLAM on the brake to stop the vehicle, does the weight of the Model 3, including the regenerative braking, actually "trick" the user into thinking our light press of the pedal works?

Also, is there anything else I can check to make sure it's not my brakes?

Thank you!

 

[lbowroom]

OEM tires? Tire pressure?

 

[kbecks13]

Well, it 100% coasts and it's kind of scary how fast and well it does. But, when I attempt to brake, it's MUCH harder than I expected. Like I almost have to SLAM on the brake to stop the vehicle, does the weight of the Model 3, including the regenerative braking, actually "trick" the user into thinking our light press of the pedal works?

The stock brakes don't really inspire confidence and yes the car is super heavy which contributes to that. I think it's a combination of you being used to regen and also the stock brakes being pretty meh.

It's been kinda hot somewhat recently in LA, maybe it's from all the energy used to cool the car off for short trips?

 

[lbowroom]

The brakes aren’t meh. They will lock up the tires if you press them hard enough. Pedal effort is not a indicator of stopping power.

 

[Mash]

The brakes aren’t meh. They will lock up the tires if you press them hard enough. Pedal effort is not a indicator of stopping power.

Brakes are meh on purpose - to get more regeneration. Hard enough pedal press is excessive and that feels like weak brakes.

 

[kbecks13]

The brakes aren’t meh

Ok to clarify - the pads are optimized for low dust, low noise and long life and not really for initial bite or pedal feel. I think many would agree you have to be fairly aggressive on the Model 3 brakes to really get it to slow down and of course we rarely do this because we have regen.

They will lock up the tires if you press them hard enough. Pedal effort is not a indicator of stopping power.

Of course, but that's not what i mean and i don't think what OP was mentioning either. They simply do not feel great and as i said it doesn't really inspire confidence and in my opinion doesn't make for a very enjoyable sporty driving experience. There are many factors that lead into this like the weight of the car, brake pad choice, the master cylinder mounting (shameless plug) and maybe less so the brake lines themselves.

 

[lbowroom]

Yes, that’s accurate. But saying brakes are weak implies they lack stopping power, not feel.

 

[MasterC17]

Additionally, stopping any car from Neutral is going to be a bit more work. Even ICE vehicles slow down quite a bit just from the rotational resistance of the motor spinning and the vacuum caused when off the accelerator (engine braking).

 

[XLR82XS]

Additionally, stopping any car from Neutral is going to be a bit more work. Even ICE vehicles slow down quite a bit just from the rotational resistance of the motor spinning and the vacuum caused when off the accelerator (engine braking).

Yep. With no engine or motor braking stopping distance will be increased when coasting.

 

[jrweiss98020]

To get a feel for what an ICE car does by comparison, on a clear road, shift into neutral and try to stop. Note the increased effort required and sense of less control - which is real... That's why coasting in neutral is technically illegal in many states.

 

[lbowroom]

Yep. With no engine or motor braking stopping distance will be increased when coasting.

not exactly. If you press the brakes full stop, the stopping distance will be the same. If you apply light pressure, yes the distance will be longer without regen braking.

 

[lbowroom]

Ok, so you disagree that planting your foot on the brake will put the brakes into full ABS engagement? At that point, the tires can’t provide any more friction against the pavement, how will regen braking aid in stopping distance?

 

[Mash]

Actually, braking on ABS doesn't necessary produce the shortest stopping distance. Once you have a locked tire - you've lost some braking power. And ABS does that - unlocks locked tires. And since Tesla doesn't have a way to understand gravel vs asphalt road - ABS is setup for both situations, which means longer locks than needed on asphalt.

And it's easier to come closer to the edge with regen or engine braking in addition to friction brakes. With brake slamming on ABS regen decreases brake force loss when ABS releases brakes.

 

[lbowroom]

that’s a more discerning description, and up for debate whether a human can bring the car to a stop quicker than the ABS system. It’s down to the ability of the driver to stay just shy of lock up. What I was after was that the brakes ability is there regardless of regen to help stop the car. It does take more pedal pressure, but that doesn’t mean the car stops shorter in a panic with regen.

 

[Mash]

But that's what I have explained. ABS is not using 100% of traction. Moreover it has waves of traction use. Regen decreases amplitude of those waves. Whether it will be perceivable without instrument test - I don't know.

And yes, on a dry track with enough time given, average driver can improve over regular ABS. My Evo X had different kind of ABS - that one was difficult to outrun. In a super sport mode it was acting very optimistic and quickly stabilizing just at the edge of tire limit. And tire limit is dynamically changing for each wheel, so at some point you can't win performance type abs.