Has anyone gotten 17" rims onto a Model 3?

[SammichLover]

I expect it'll be a very small number, if any, that'll fit over the brake calipers.

Related question, does the AWD have the exact same clearance for rims as the RWD?

 

[Halloween81]

I heard, the lowest you can go is 18"...i wouldn't take a chance like that

 

[SammichLover]

Coward!



I know it will be very tight at best and most rims won't even come close. That's why I'm doing the legwork here, because if it is possible it'll be difficult and calls for solid verification ahead of any order. Plus a professional fitting I think, I won't mail order them with tires already on and install the wheels myself. Just to be sure.

They wouldn't be for snow, probably not even on the road. So I'm not as worried about getting build-up in the tight gap.

 

[Thomas Edison]

Coward!



I know it will be very tight at best and most rims won't even come close. That's why I'm doing the legwork here, because if it is possible it'll be difficult and calls for solid verification ahead of any order. Plus a professional fitting I think, I won't mail order them with tires already on and install the wheels myself. Just to be sure.

They wouldn't be for snow, probably not even on the road. So I'm not as worried about getting build-up in the tight gap.

I assume you’re also looking for the lightest wheels you can find?

 

[SammichLover]

I assume you’re also looking for the lightest wheels you can find?

Yes.*

* With one kid in university and two more to go.

It looks like the 17" dream in dead, for now. There was one Canadian company that did a 3D scan survey and compared against about 75 rims they had 3D data on file for. They came up with a single 17" rim model, that was discontinued, that could likely be physically mounted although it'd be close. When they tested by mounting the actual rim they found it didn't meat their standards of having 2mm of clearance.

So next up is just looking through the 18x8.5 selection. It seems that +/- 17lb is where the bottom is coming in at for the rims.

 

[stickman]

Yes.*

out of curiosity, why? I know the theory behind wanting lighter wheels (unsprung, rotating mass). Are you hoping for better handling or acceleration?

 

[SammichLover]

out of curiosity, why? I know the theory behind wanting lighter wheels (unsprung, rotating mass). Are you hoping for better handling or acceleration?

Hopes and dreams:
1) Less unsettling when turning in/out, as wheels are like gyroscopes and rotating the direction of the front wheels, and the rear wheels also as they rotate to follow the front, creates a rolling torque proportional to the mass of the wheel and the distance from center of the wheel that mass is located at. You can mitigate some of this by smoother, slower steering wheel turning but reduction of the wheel mass is an "also".
2) Hopefully better at maintaining better grip over slightly uneven pavement, due to lower unsprung weight, without going to coil-overs / aftermarket damper upgrades. The later would do a lot more in this regard but are $3K, by the time you get them installed and everything re-aligned, and more importantly would push the vehicle into a different classification.

Acceleration I'm not as worried about, as the Model 3 is already really strong in that area.

 

[Orwell]

I was entertaining the idea of getting carbon fiber wheels in 18" or 19" for my 3P+ for the reasons mentioned above, however none of the ones available (Carbon Revolution, Forgeline, Unplugged Performance, ADV1, Brixton Forged) are significantly lighter than the lightest aluminum wheels currently available (especially given the cost of the fully carbon fiber wheel or carbon fiber barreled wheel).

The lightest 17x8" aluminum wheel seems to be around 14-15 lbs, while the lightest 18x8.5" aluminum wheel is around 15-16 lbs.

 

[lbowroom]

Just out of curiosity, are you guys also recumbent bike enthusiasts?

 

[stickman]

Hopes and dreams:
1) Less unsettling when turning in/out, as wheels are like gyroscopes and rotating the direction of the front wheels, and the rear wheels also as they rotate to follow the front, creates a rolling torque proportional to the mass of the wheel and the distance from center of the wheel that mass is located at. You can mitigate some of this by smoother, slower steering wheel turning but reduction of the wheel mass is an "also".
2) Hopefully better at maintaining better grip over slightly uneven pavement, due to lower unsprung weight, without going to coil-overs / aftermarket damper upgrades. The later would do a lot more in this regard but are $3K, by the time you get them installed and everything re-aligned, and more importantly would push the vehicle into a different classification.

Acceleration I'm not as worried about, as the Model 3 is already really strong in that area.

Hmm. Be really interesting to see if you notice a difference- this is for autocross, right? I'm under the impression that with a car this heavy most of the benefits you would notice from lighter wheels on a lighter car would be negated. I could see a tiny theoretical benefit from your number 2 but number 1 makes no sense to me. Are you saying you can feel the car get unsettled when initiating a turn, and you're attributing it to wheel weight?

I come from a motorcycle background where lighter wheels make a huge difference in both acceleration and handling but of course that's completely different for a bunch of reasons (gyroscopic effect is way magnified on a bike, wheel weight relative to vehicle weight is substantial etc) but on a 4000lb car? I can't see it.

That being said, whatever floats your boat!

 

[SammichLover]

Hmm. Be really interesting to see if you notice a difference- this is for autocross, right? I'm under the impression that with a car this heavy most of the benefits you would notice from lighter wheels on a lighter car would be negated. I could see a tiny theoretical benefit from your number 2 but number 1 makes no sense to me. Are you saying you can feel the car get unsettled when initiating a turn, and you're attributing it to wheel weight?

I come from a motorcycle background where lighter wheels make a huge difference in both acceleration and handling but of course that's completely different for a bunch of reasons (gyroscopic effect is way magnified on a bike, wheel weight relative to vehicle weight is substantial etc) but on a 4000lb car? I can't see it.

That being said, whatever floats your boat!

The gyroscopic effect is part of how a motorcycle turns, the physics of steering are way different there. That's why, over a few miles per hour, you turn in by pushing the handle bars the opposite way. Motorcycles rely on that body roll effect, to get to the proper placement.

The effect with traction has to do with higher unsprung weight making the wheels....bouncier I guess? It means the suspension is used less. The exaggerated example of this is a monster truck, where the huge % of the vehicle mass being unsprung means that it actually sees very little travel in the suspension when driving over stuff and the vehicle is leaping into the air when it does.

 

[outdoors]

The gyroscopic effect is part of how a motorcycle turns, the physics of steering are way different there. That's why, over a few miles per hour, you turn in by pushing the handle bars the opposite way. Motorcycles rely on that body roll effect, to get to the proper placement.

The effect with traction has to do with higher unsprung weight making the wheels....bouncier I guess? It means the suspension is used less. The exaggerated example of this is a monster truck, where the huge % of the vehicle mass means that it actually sees very little travel in the suspension when driving over stuff and the vehicle is leaping into the air when it does.

In cycling crits as you lean into a left turn one would actually push left side of handlebar to the right. Pushing the wheel into the corner. Strange. Scared like crap when I tried it as a 14 year old. That's how your knee would almost kiss the ground. Sometimes it did.

 

[stickman]

The gyroscopic effect is part of how a motorcycle turns, the physics of steering are way different there. That's why, over a few miles per hour, you turn in by pushing the handle bars the opposite way. Motorcycles rely on that body roll effect, to get to the proper placement.

The effect with traction has to do with higher unsprung weight making the wheels....bouncier I guess? It means the suspension is used less. The exaggerated example of this is a monster truck, where the huge % of the vehicle mass being unsprung means that it actually sees very little travel in the suspension when driving over stuff and the vehicle is leaping into the air when it does.

Heh I know how motorcycles turn. Anyway, good luck on your quest.

 

[SammichLover]

Heh I know how motorcycles turn.

But you failed to make the connection that the gyroscope effect has an entirely different impact with 4 wheel vehicles. For motorcycles is fundamental to how they work, with 4 wheel vehicles in a byproduct that gets in the way of handling.

 

[NeverFollow]

You can review the following comment from the thread:

Mini Spare For Model 3, Hyundai Genesis 18" works

I want to add some caution/details to the spare tire replacement.
There is a 10mm brake rotor bolt holding it to the Hub.
The OE wheels have a hollow space accommodating that 10mm bolt.
But aftermarket spares like genesis spare does not/may not have this provision.
Hence to mount this spare you may have to remove that 10mm bolt before you can mount the spare donut or wheel.
This may apply to some aftermarket wheels also.

Also, I had bad luck with seller sending the 17 inch spare even though I ordered 18 inch Genesis spare donut tire.
Seller said he did not have it in stock, and gave credit for that 17 inch wheel. Since I have this 17 inch steel spare,
I thought I would try and see.

17 inch steel wheel could not clear brake caliper in the back, but it worked fine for the front.
So, I can still use it for the front. If my rear tire fails, I may have to put spare on the front,
and mount front tire on the rear.

This is in fact better than mounting the spare in the rear as this is a rear wheel drive car,
and puts more stress on rear wheels(donut is weak ).

This would be still faster than waiting for roadside assistance which only flatbed the vehicle anyways,
and then trying to find a tire patching service, or even worst looking for tire replacement.

See the image attached for 10mm bolt.
It is there for front as well as rear. Bolt shown in the rear, bolt removed shown on front rotor.
Also see the clearance of brake caliper for the front.
There is an indent on Spare wheel to align with bolt location, but indent is very shallow and not enough to clear that 10mm bolt.

Also, I tested the torque for wheel nuts. They are no where near 129lb-ft spec.
These are torqued to 105lb-ft which closer to typical cars in this size range.
Typical torque for most cars would be 85+/- 5 lb-ft. When I saw the specs 129 lb-ft, I felt it is too much.
So, I would suggest go easy on wheel nuts and keep the torque around 105+/- lb-ft.