In a lawsuit over a collision involving my Model S. The path forward may involve defining Tesla's trade-in valuation process in a court admissible manner (i.e. subpoena and deposition). Has anyone done something similar?
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Has Anyone Subpoenaed Tesla? (about Trade-Ins?)
- Thread starter OrbiterTI4
- Start date
Correct, and in this case the other party has hired someone claiming to be an expert in DV. The appraiser generated a report and has testified as generating the DV value in part by "calling and speaking to the trade-in managers at multiple Tesla dealerships," (a paraphrase of the report, but you get the drift).
Hence the desire to document in an admissible manner the actual process.
Petrocelli
Member
Yes, we're months-deep into the process. Was reaching out to TMC members in case someone already had a point of contact, otherwise we'll likely start with the nearest gallery manager (but whether he is the right person or not, not sure yet).
Trade in values might not be the proper gauge of value. That would only apply if you were going to trade in the car, and in that case you’d be comparing wholesale values. If you were to sell to another individual, you’d be using a different set of prices, average private sale prices.
In my experience (limited, I’ll grant you) the BMW dealer said my car would be unaffected by the body work required when a cretin parked next to my pristeen BMW 330, a white convertible with a black top. The cretin pulled in, parked his old truck next to my car, went in to clock in, came back out to move his truck 30 feet to a parking place designated for him. He forgot my car was parked on the passenger side of his truck, it was dark, my top was black, so he cranked his steering wheel over and raked my car down the left side. I had it repaired by the best in town, someone who customizes cars. He even sprayed test panels with his various spray guns so he could match the existing factory orange peel. The repair was flawless.
The BMW dealer was wrong of course. A Carfax report simply stated “collision left side”. Carfax doesn’t concern themselves with detail. That walloped the value pretty well. It was over a year later when I sold it, and I discovered the true meaning of “diminished value”. The diminished value far exceeded the cost of the repair.
I’d get my own diminished value expert. I don’t think the Tesla trade in managers are going to be in tune with decreased value on the open market. Your car is already 4 years old, it depends on how much longer you plan to keep it how much loss you suffer. If you want to keep it for a long time, another 5-10 years, the diminshed value will be pretty much moot when you sell. The thing is you want the diminished value now, the amount it would be worth now if your cretin hadn’t crashed into your car vs how much it is worth now that he has.
If you’d had a large amount of damage, they’d have totaled your car. So the car is probably about as good as it was before. When they fix it, Tesla takes off pieces until they get down to a level where nothing is bent, then they put on new pieces. You don’t have to replace that much at Tesla prices to get to the point you exceed the value of the car, especially with a car 4 years old and with a significant amount of diminished value.
You might call some Tesla trade in managers and see what kind of numbers you get. Maybe that will give you an idea what numbers their expert might quote. If you do that, you should write down the date and the Tesla person you speak to, I’d expect that opposing expert to come up with an absurdly low number. I’d expect him to call say 8-10 trade in managers then quote only the lowest number he hears, not necessarily the average of them. If he’s going to do that, you’ll be well armed if you have your own list of 8-10 trade in managers with names, their locations, and dates, and can list the high, the low, and the average. Then you’ll want the same information but based on private sale numbers, not trade in values. You do need an expert. It’ll likely cost you if you cannot counter with your own numbers.
Good luck. Please drop me a message after all this is over and let me know how things turned out.
The issue: Tesla does not give quotes at a gallery, they direct you to tesla.com/tradein where you get a KBB-based value. This is why I'm seeking the appropriate Tesla contact to offer court-admissible deposition/testimony in contrast to the opposing DV "expert"'s report/testimony.
My trade offer from Tesla was very typical of any dealer. Both on Model 3 and Jeep.
Tesla does not jack up the price of what your buying to make you all warm and fuzzy like other dealers do.
I always laugh at people when they think they got a great trade. Real trade values always suck.
Tesla does not jack up the price of what your buying to make you all warm and fuzzy like other dealers do.
I always laugh at people when they think they got a great trade. Real trade values always suck.
A deposition has already occurred. We are seeking to disprove the testimony of the other DV appraiser and the content of his report, hence the desire to have testimony from a Tesla rep.
VaztheDad
Member
Diminished value is not based on the value of such a trade, but instead the value you could sell for.
That's the first flaw in this whole case.
That's the first flaw in this whole case.
Here's a TL;DR summary to try and keep this thread from veering off into the "what's DV" direction (which I intend to cover in my full repair/DV/lawsuit post when everything is said and done)...
Hired a DV appraiser who arrived at a DV value.
Hired lawyer and filed against insured driver who hit me after insurance refused to pay DV.
Defense hired their own DV appraiser who arrived at value over $10k lower.
Defense DV appraiser has testified to "calling multiple Tesla dealerships, speaking to multiple trade-in managers who all agree this is the value of your car both pre-accident and post-repair."
Lawyer and I have verified in person, Tesla stores/galleries refers potential buyers to tesla.com/tradein, aka there are no trade-in managers who would give a pre-accident or post-repair value to a car, aka we believe the defense DV appraiser testimony to be false.
Seeking Tesla Point of Contact (if an official one exists) for deposition to offer court-admissible testimony to refute defense DV appraiser.
I am a professional appraiser who specializes in what your calling DV. I have testified many times in courts all over Texas.
I believe I know the co your referring to, they're out of Oregon.
A report that states basically "this is my opinion of these other guys opinion" is not a legitimate appraisal for DV.
Over the last ten years I have conducted several dozen Post-Repair inspections on collision repaired Tesla's for the purpose of developing an appraisal to assess differences in market value of vehicles that have SOLD at the closest place and time the loss occurred; with versus without collision repair disclosure.
Focus on your proof! If you have a qualified appraiser who included the correct information in their appraisal required by case law to support your claims then don't worry, If your in county or district court, that fake DV report from Oregon will not be admitted.
ALSO FYI- We have been tracking the sales history of the Tesla's that we have inspected since 2010.
The results in loss of value on Tesla's sold with collision history but NO structural damages is averaging 12% of fair market value. Tesla's loss of value sold with damage disclosure of structural repairs is averaging 26% of fair market value.
It don't matter what Tesla says, you have to have proof it. Tesla will not their employees to get involved in your case. Your only chance is to find an X employee who was a buyer for Tesla, in your area. Not Likely....
I believe I know the co your referring to, they're out of Oregon.
A report that states basically "this is my opinion of these other guys opinion" is not a legitimate appraisal for DV.
Over the last ten years I have conducted several dozen Post-Repair inspections on collision repaired Tesla's for the purpose of developing an appraisal to assess differences in market value of vehicles that have SOLD at the closest place and time the loss occurred; with versus without collision repair disclosure.
Focus on your proof! If you have a qualified appraiser who included the correct information in their appraisal required by case law to support your claims then don't worry, If your in county or district court, that fake DV report from Oregon will not be admitted.
ALSO FYI- We have been tracking the sales history of the Tesla's that we have inspected since 2010.
The results in loss of value on Tesla's sold with collision history but NO structural damages is averaging 12% of fair market value. Tesla's loss of value sold with damage disclosure of structural repairs is averaging 26% of fair market value.
It don't matter what Tesla says, you have to have proof it. Tesla will not their employees to get involved in your case. Your only chance is to find an X employee who was a buyer for Tesla, in your area. Not Likely....
Not referring to this particular company. Referring to one based here in HOU.
The defense DV appraiser is filed as a retained expert witness. We are seeking the Tesla testimony to potentially support a motion to strike the expert testimony. It is possible the court would rule the report inadmissible in the absence of said testimony, but not a guarantee, as supposedly the appraiser has successfully been an expert witness in this court before.
Similar threads
