Help deciding on AP 2.0 upgrade

[MP3Mike]

Makes sense. I guess the queue of people who ordered AP1.0 hardware but will get AP2.0 is significantly large ? And tesla isn't not willing to write of that $$$. Just a guess - assuming it was 2000 people in the transition queue , that's around 2000 * $2000 = $4 mill in the lower end . Not a lot of money, but not pocket change either.

But figure that they had more than a month of orders in the queue. (If you went to place an order the soonest you were getting quoted was December.) And then on top of that lots of people delay their order up to 6 months.

At a production rate of ~2,300/week figure 8 weeks of orders or 18,400 cars. Figure that half of those were at the old AP price, and half at the new AP price so an average upgrade price of $2,250. For a grand total of $41.4 million of list possible income if they gave it away.

 

[LastGas]

Look at the EAP feature list from the customization page:

1. Match speed to traffic conditions (AP already does this)
2. Keep within a lane (AP already does this)
3. Change lanes without requiring driver input (AP requires driver to determine if it is safe)
4. Transition from one freeway to another (exit promised for AP in version 8.1, but no merging onto another freeway).
5. Exit the freeway when your destination is near (Promised for AP in version 8.1)
6. Self park when near a parking spot (AP already does this)
7. Summon to and from your garage (AP already does this)

Looking at this list carefully, on sees that the sole difference between the AP Convenience Feature and Enhanced Autopilot is the ability to merge into a lane of traffic (either when changing lanes or transitioning between freeways), something AP 1.0 didn't have adequate sensors to accomplish. The only other thing about EAP is that it runs on the new hardware.

The difference is only significant, important, and worth the extra money when full autonomy arrives. Then it will be worth the money, and more.

 

[MP3Mike]

@LastGas You should read the information more carefully, you are missing a lot of details. Like Smart Summon can go around corners/obstacles. EAP can see that your lane is moving slower than the others and change lanes to go around someone that is out on a leisurely Sunday drive. etc...

 

[xborg]

I don't think that Tesla would restrict the software if you don't pay the difference for the "Enhanced Autopilot". Most of these features were promised anyway.

 

[MP3Mike]

I don't think that Tesla would restrict the software if you don't pay the difference for the "Enhanced Autopilot". Most of these features were promised anyway.

They have already said they will, and they list the differences on the web site. (Like only using 1 camera for Convenience Features and 4 for EAP.)

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I think it's totally worth it.

Keep in mind it's just not what it brings to the table with TACC (my favorite part), but it's also the experience of getting new features every 3 months or so to play around with.

For me the Tesla is as much about the experience of it as it is about the car.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

They have already said they will, and they list the differences on the web site. (Like only using 1 camera for Convenience Features and 4 for EAP.)

Why would they try to prove out TWO different sets of AP based on a software flag? Just because a handful of people didn't pay for the upgrade?

I don't think we know the full story on what's going to happen with this one. Of how they plan on limiting it for them.

Sure the website does say that, but the website for a new order also says "going from one to four" so what the hell does that mean if I'm a new customer that is not familiar with AP? Where did the one come from?

 

[MP3Mike]

Why would they try to prove out TWO different sets of AP based on a software flag? Just because a handful of people didn't pay for the upgrade?

I can think of one good reason to have a lower level feature set: fallback. Say all but the main front camera fail or get blocked; rather than disabling Autopilot it can gracefully degrade to the Convenience Feature set.

I don't think we know the full story on what's going to happen with this one. Of how they plan on limiting it for them.

Why does everyone think it is only a handful of people? Figure they have at least a month of pending orders, plus lots of orders delayed up to 6 months. Say 8 weeks of production, or ~18,000 cars. (Who knows how many paid for AP, but I suspect most.) Figure that half of those were at the old AP price, and half at the new AP price so an average upgrade price of $2,250. For a grand total of $41.4 million of lost possible income if they gave EAP away for free instead of turning off some features.

In the email they say you can upgrade to EAP or keep the AP Convenience Feature that you have paid for, and then they list the enhanced features. Here is what they list as being the features in EAP not in AP Convenience Features:

• Smart Summon
• Self-park when near a parking spot
• Autosteer+
• Automatic lane change
• On-ramp to off-ramp navigation
• Transition from one freeway to another
• Match speed to traffic conditions (Not sure if this is just TACC or enhanced to account for weather/construction/etc.)

We don't even have official word on which 4 cameras are used with E-AP. I know you have your prediction, and I have mine. But, neither of us have anything to back it up that I'm aware of.

Actually we do have that information:

So now we know which 4 cameras are used by EAP:

• The main forward looking camera
• The two rear-facing side cameras
• One of the remaining forward looking cameras. (We don't know if it is the wide angle or long range camera, probably the long range one.)

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

So now we know which 4 cameras are used by EAP:

• The main forward looking camera
• The two rear-facing side cameras
• One of the remaining forward looking cameras. (We don't know if it is the wide angle or long range camera, probably the long range one.)

I realized we finally have that info, but that info is only on the upgrade page that was posted by someone deciding whether to upgrade. That info isn't on the new order page.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

In the email they say you can upgrade to EAP or keep the AP Convenience Feature that you have paid for, and then they list the enhanced features. Here is what they list as being the features in EAP not in AP Convenience Features:

I can definitely see them restricting the feature set, but I can't see them restricting the cameras.

 

[Archduke]

I just upgraded my order to Full Self-Driving Capability. I hope my bet pays off that they'll get it approved sooner rather than later!

 

[MP3Mike]

I can definitely see them restricting the feature set, but I can't see them restricting the cameras.

Well they are saying they will:

• AP Convenience Features: 1 active camera
• EAP: 4 active cameras
• FSDC: 8 active cameras

That way they would always likely have someone actually using the system in it's degraded state, so that they aren't surprised when something goes wrong when only the main camera is working.

Of course it is possible that the cameras will be inactive for the driver assistance features but still active for the AP Safety Features. But we don't have anything from Tesla stating that.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Well they are saying they will:

• AP Convenience Features: 1 active camera
• EAP: 4 active cameras
• FSDC: 8 active cameras

Of course it is possible that the cameras will be inactive for the driver assistance features but still active for the AP Safety Features. But we don't have anything from Tesla stating that.

The only part I disagree with is AP (on AP 2.0 cars) will use 4 active cameras. There're not going to have engineers prove out two systems for a handful of customers (in the big scheme of things). They're critical for blind spot monitoring. So it's kinda hard to leave them out of AP.

I know what I'm saying is contrary to the website, but I think the website is wrong. The website also says "and a computer that is 40X", but obviously the computer isn't different.

If they do limit it, the limitation will be on a feature set. They'll be a few silly things you can't do like Smart Summons. Things that don't impact driver safety. Or maybe it will just nag more, and the only difference is the damn nag.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Well they are saying they will:

• AP Convenience Features: 1 active camera
• EAP: 4 active cameras
• FSDC: 8 active cameras

That way they would always likely have someone actually using the system in it's degraded state, so that they aren't surprised when something goes wrong when only the main camera is working.

Of course it is possible that the cameras will be inactive for the driver assistance features but still active for the AP Safety Features. But we don't have anything from Tesla stating that.

You sure are disliking a lot of posts for something that is undeniably written badly on Tesla's website.

Something where we only disagree on ONE point, and that's the Cameras.

We both agree on what the computer will be (the new one), and what the ultrasonic sensors will be (the new ones). It lists the computer and the ultrasonic sensors as enhancements.

Either you're being really anal or my reading comprehension is terrible. Or I haven't read something you have read.

 

[LastGas]

@LastGas You should read the information more carefully, you are missing a lot of details. Like Smart Summon can go around corners/obstacles. EAP can see that your lane is moving slower than the others and change lanes to go around someone that is out on a leisurely Sunday drive. etc...

You should read my comment more closely, since I specifically noted the lane change feature was an actual enhancement. As for ":Smart Summon," my understanding is that this feature was part of the original Autopilot promise.

 

[rickgt]

As a first gen autopilot owner, I would suggest that upgrading to next gen will pay off in residual value. Go for it!

 

[hingisfan]

I can think of one good reason to have a lower level feature set: fallback. Say all but the main front camera fail or get blocked; rather than disabling Autopilot it can gracefully degrade to the Convenience Feature set.



Why does everyone think it is only a handful of people? Figure they have at least a month of pending orders, plus lots of orders delayed up to 6 months. Say 8 weeks of production, or ~18,000 cars. (Who knows how many paid for AP, but I suspect most.) Figure that half of those were at the old AP price, and half at the new AP price so an average upgrade price of $2,250. For a grand total of $41.4 million of lost possible income if they gave EAP away for free instead of turning off some features.

In the email they say you can upgrade to EAP or keep the AP Convenience Feature that you have paid for, and then they list the enhanced features. Here is what they list as being the features in EAP not in AP Convenience Features:

• Smart Summon
• Self-park when near a parking spot
• Autosteer+
• Automatic lane change
• On-ramp to off-ramp navigation
• Transition from one freeway to another
• Match speed to traffic conditions (Not sure if this is just TACC or enhanced to account for weather/construction/etc.)

Actually we do have that information:
View attachment 200049

So now we know which 4 cameras are used by EAP:

• The main forward looking camera
• The two rear-facing side cameras
• One of the remaining forward looking cameras. (We don't know if it is the wide angle or long range camera, probably the long range one.)

Maybe they have some of the old hardware they can use up if someone doesn't want AP 2.0 that's in the order queue. I think you would be crazy not to upgrade to 2.0 if you have an order in though, The AP will likely work MUCH better with all the extra hardware, plus you have the option to upgrade to self-driving down the road. (No way in heck I'd pay for self-driving when their are many regulatory/insurance questions that need to be sorted out.)