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Help Me Decide Between Long Range and Performance
- Thread starter NinjaFoot
- Start date
Hello everyone,
I am completely new here, but overly-excited of the prospect of getting a Tesla soon. However, as I have some specific wishes, I would like to hear your thoughts/advice before making the final decision.
A bit of back-ground:
- I have not owned an EV before, so this would be the first one.
- Driving habits/behavior: City-driving during the week, up to 15-20km in one go, and occasionally longer during week-end (250-300km return trips on the highway). 1-2 times a year, I do a long road-trip of 2-4000kms in total, mostly during the warm seasons. I do drive quite aggressively in the city, but not on the longer trips.
- Weather: As you can see, I live in a fairly moderate country in terms of weather, with temperatures ranging from 0 (32F) or a bit less (in the winter) to 25-30 (77-86F) (in the summer), and also moderate, but consistent wind. There is also a fair amount of rain during spring/autumn and sometimes summer too.
My current options:
- Long Range model, which just received an update in Q2 on the range (WLTP value 614km)
- Performance model, WLTP value 567km
Initially, I was quite set on getting the performance model - I found it worth it for the extra power, and nicer visuals. Not in particular happy about it being lowered due to the roads here, but well. Also took a test-drive in this one, and definitely got hooked on it.
However, since range is an important factor for me, mostly due to the 1-2 times a year long trips, I am leaning more and more towards the LR model. That being said, when starting to dig through forums, articles, I have seen some concerns with this model:
insideevs.com
insideevs.com
My first question, then is: What can I realistically expect out of the 614km range? It is not the city-driving context which worries me - there are plenty of charging stations around, and I am sure I will manage it. It is the long-trip/highway driving, where in general the speed limits are 110-130km/h. Of course, one cannot expect to achieve the WLTP value, realistically, but how much lower should I set my expectation?
My second question, then is: If the answer to the first question is, a significant amount lower (say 25-30%), would it then really make a huge difference compared to the Performance model? 70% of 614 = 429 while 70% of 567 = 397. So not such a significant difference after all.
=====================
(Moderator note: Welcome to TMC. I moved this thread you created (this post and the ones after it) to an active thread on the exact same subject. You can read about peoples opinions on this topic in the thread this post is now in)
I am completely new here, but overly-excited of the prospect of getting a Tesla soon. However, as I have some specific wishes, I would like to hear your thoughts/advice before making the final decision.
A bit of back-ground:
- I have not owned an EV before, so this would be the first one.
- Driving habits/behavior: City-driving during the week, up to 15-20km in one go, and occasionally longer during week-end (250-300km return trips on the highway). 1-2 times a year, I do a long road-trip of 2-4000kms in total, mostly during the warm seasons. I do drive quite aggressively in the city, but not on the longer trips.
- Weather: As you can see, I live in a fairly moderate country in terms of weather, with temperatures ranging from 0 (32F) or a bit less (in the winter) to 25-30 (77-86F) (in the summer), and also moderate, but consistent wind. There is also a fair amount of rain during spring/autumn and sometimes summer too.
My current options:
- Long Range model, which just received an update in Q2 on the range (WLTP value 614km)
- Performance model, WLTP value 567km
Initially, I was quite set on getting the performance model - I found it worth it for the extra power, and nicer visuals. Not in particular happy about it being lowered due to the roads here, but well. Also took a test-drive in this one, and definitely got hooked on it.
However, since range is an important factor for me, mostly due to the 1-2 times a year long trips, I am leaning more and more towards the LR model. That being said, when starting to dig through forums, articles, I have seen some concerns with this model:
What's The Real World Highway Range Of Today's Electric Cars? We Test To Find Out
We take the most popular electric cars, fully charge them, and then drive them at 70 mph to find out just how far they will go. Which one goes the furthest?
insideevs.com
Tesla Fails To Meet EPA Range With All Its Cars In Edmunds' Tests
Edmunds tested 15 EVs to check their range and Tesla failed to meet its EPA numbers with all its cars. Only one Tesla got more than 300 miles of range.
insideevs.com
My first question, then is: What can I realistically expect out of the 614km range? It is not the city-driving context which worries me - there are plenty of charging stations around, and I am sure I will manage it. It is the long-trip/highway driving, where in general the speed limits are 110-130km/h. Of course, one cannot expect to achieve the WLTP value, realistically, but how much lower should I set my expectation?
My second question, then is: If the answer to the first question is, a significant amount lower (say 25-30%), would it then really make a huge difference compared to the Performance model? 70% of 614 = 429 while 70% of 567 = 397. So not such a significant difference after all.
=====================
(Moderator note: Welcome to TMC. I moved this thread you created (this post and the ones after it) to an active thread on the exact same subject. You can read about peoples opinions on this topic in the thread this post is now in)
SA called me and told me my car is ready to pick up today instead next Tuesday. Unfortunately can’t pick it up today because I have to return my Camaro stock. I have to put stock Exhaust system and wheels back on.
I am really surprised I am able take delivery this quick. Ordered on 4/15 and it is ready to pick up on 4/29.
I am really surprised I am able take delivery this quick. Ordered on 4/15 and it is ready to pick up on 4/29.
Candleflame
Active Member
bjrosen
Member
It's the wheels and tires on the Performance that reduce it's range vs the LR, that's going to be especially true at highway speeds. Unless you are taking the car to the track there is absolutely no reason to buy a Performance instead of a LR. The wheels on the LR are more durable than the wheels on the Performance because there is more tire to absorb shock. A new LR will have a heat pump, a used M3 won't, that makes a big difference in winter range. The acceleration of the LR is neck snapping as it is, 0-60MPH in 4.2 seconds, if that's not good enough for you there is the Performance Boost option that you can get over the air which cuts the time by a further .5 seconds. The Performance version is for people who want the last drop of speed, for everyone else a LR is a better choice.
As for real range, that depends on how you drive. I drive with a gentle foot and make minimal use of HVAC system, my car doesn't have a heat pump so the effect of the heater is devastating, it cuts range by a third. In the winter I preheat the car before I leave home and rely on the seat heaters instead of the cabin heater if I can, when I do that I do nearly well as I do in summer. Now that it's spring I'm getting around 200-220Wh/mile even on trips that are half highway. It helps that traffic jams are back so the speed on our highways in Massachusetts is less than it is on back roads. Tezlab shows that I've averaged 116% of the expected efficiency over the last 6 months, over the last 3 months (i.e. the winter) my average was 85% efficiency and for the last year it was 98% efficiency. So it is possible to beat the EPA numbers if you drive conservatively. As for real range you have to take into account the fact that you normally never charge your car more that 90% and that you want to give yourself a comfortable margin at the low end so that you don't run out of juice. With a LR you can count on at least 200 miles (312 KM), if you drive like me 250 miles (402 KM), between charging stops. Superchargers are placed much closer together than that and unless you have a massive bladder you'll need to make rest stops more frequently than the car will need charging.
As for real range, that depends on how you drive. I drive with a gentle foot and make minimal use of HVAC system, my car doesn't have a heat pump so the effect of the heater is devastating, it cuts range by a third. In the winter I preheat the car before I leave home and rely on the seat heaters instead of the cabin heater if I can, when I do that I do nearly well as I do in summer. Now that it's spring I'm getting around 200-220Wh/mile even on trips that are half highway. It helps that traffic jams are back so the speed on our highways in Massachusetts is less than it is on back roads. Tezlab shows that I've averaged 116% of the expected efficiency over the last 6 months, over the last 3 months (i.e. the winter) my average was 85% efficiency and for the last year it was 98% efficiency. So it is possible to beat the EPA numbers if you drive conservatively. As for real range you have to take into account the fact that you normally never charge your car more that 90% and that you want to give yourself a comfortable margin at the low end so that you don't run out of juice. With a LR you can count on at least 200 miles (312 KM), if you drive like me 250 miles (402 KM), between charging stops. Superchargers are placed much closer together than that and unless you have a massive bladder you'll need to make rest stops more frequently than the car will need charging.
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El joe
Active Member
Pretty much how I reasoned getting a LR over a Performance. The speed is amazing and feels much faster than 4.2 (I’ve seen tests say it’s closer to 4.0) and the acceleration boost puts it pretty close to a Performance while the range overall is better.
I own a 2019 long range with the $2k acceleration boost. Here’s my 2cents... If speed is your concern get the performance. Yes with Acceleration boost its a .05 second difference from the performance model but from my experience there’s a difference. This is subjective but you can feel the Gs of the performance whereas in the long range you cannot. It’s an enough difference for me to trade in my long range and order a performance recently. Range shouldn’t be a factor once you get 18 wheels and good tires and a good supercharging infrastructure. Just don’t regret it getting the long range like I did if you want that queasy, blood rushing in your head feeling that the performance offer.
I have gone through the same dilemma recently and ordered a LR. I am trading in a '19 2SS Camaro so I am already coming from a fast car but at the end of the day I couldn't justify extra $10k for the performance model.
If you don't care about the price difference between the two model, get the performance. You can get 18 wheels and different tires to gain back some range. You can turn a performance into a LR but you cannot turn a LR into a P. However if you get the Performance forget about getting the rated range because you will be flooring it every chance you get lol.
If you don't care about the price difference between the two model, get the performance. You can get 18 wheels and different tires to gain back some range. You can turn a performance into a LR but you cannot turn a LR into a P. However if you get the Performance forget about getting the rated range because you will be flooring it every chance you get lol.
Damnit I was hoping you pick the P after that long thread lol
If you are wondering why your comment here is now in the thread you created, its because I moved the thread @ogmios started into this one, since its the exact same question
I was hoping so too lol but savings on LR outweighed extra fun from P. I guess I will use the savings for 4680 Model 3 Performance if Tesla decides to switch over to new batteries in the future.
This. I couldn't afford the P right now so I ordered an LR but I reasoning is that resale value holds so well that is I stumble on a pile of free cash that makes the P affordable to me, I would trade it in. Or if the pile of cash is large enough, transfer the LR to my wife an get a P haha
Thank's a lot for the toughts.
What I meant by LR (new) is the updated model for Q2, where as I understood from the guys at Tesla I talked to, they are using some parts developed for the Y model, to get that extra range. I am not sure if this is updated on the US site yet (displays 353 miles - EPA for LR), but on the DK site it says now 614km (380 miles) instead of 580km which was for the Q1 model - WLTP rating.
So in the comparison it was still between a new Performance, and a new LR, but with that additional range. In terms of speed, since I just tried the P, it is probably wise to try the LR as well and compare. My assumption is that both are sufficient for my needs.
For the range question/answer, again, my 'concern' is on the long-stretches on those 2k km journeys I was talking about. Is it unrealistic to expect a range of 400-450km at highway speeds (120-130km/h) with minimal to no use of AC during spring to autumn seasons?
As for the supercharger network, while it is decently developed in Europe, I don't think it's comparable with US, hence why I would find stopping every 300-350km for a recharge a bit cumbersome. Especially since I like to do those trips in one-go, and so would expect to take perhaps 4-5 stops instead of 6-7. It's not a deal breaker necessarily, but I would like to have realistic expectations before I go on with the buy.
You should take anything an SA from Tesla says with a shovel of salt. That being said the "614km" european models (LR) uses the same batteries as the late 2020 performance and I believe between now and Q4 this year all LR will transition to the new battery pack. The range difference looks minimal. WLTP seems to overestimate range a lot so 34 extra km is probably closer to 10 which is more like an actual 580km. (the EPA rating for the "old" packs is 570km).
I think 400-450km is probably around the upper bound. It's nearly impossible to tell because it depends a lot on how you drive (and wheels). 120-130km/h is probably too fast to extend range (it's tuned to 60-65mi/h so around 95-105 km/h) so at that speed the range will probably sit more around 400 than 450. Again, it depends on you more than anything.
I can't tell much for EU but one of the biggest advantages of owning a Telsa in most areas of the US is that the supercharger network is very well developed. In Canada for example, you get ok supercharger network on the trans-Canadian but anything else has non-standard chargers (except maybe GTA but not familiar enough with that area). So there are a lot of charging stations but they are not the fast ones. In other words lots of places to stop for a recharge but a slow one.
Forgot to mention that for long trips, you get to charge for less time if you recharge more frequently. I.E. 2 stops of 10 min at 50% charge rather than one 40min at 15% (numbers made up but that's the general idea). So you may want to see how you can match the stops with other activities (i.e. eating specifically) to make the whole trip experience more transparent.
As an example, I am in the NYC area (North-ish NJ to be exact) and I ofter travel around Platsburg upstate NY. With my ICE car I need at least 1 stop to make it which I always schedule on the lunch (or dinner depending on departure time). It's about a 6 hours trip. With the ICE I need at least a half filled tank to make it. It will be empty at lunch/dinner time to sync fueling and eating. I can do the same for charging. But for trips longer than 8 hours, I probably need 2 stops in the LR where I could make it with 1 on the ICE if I start with a full tank.
As an example, I am in the NYC area (North-ish NJ to be exact) and I ofter travel around Platsburg upstate NY. With my ICE car I need at least 1 stop to make it which I always schedule on the lunch (or dinner depending on departure time). It's about a 6 hours trip. With the ICE I need at least a half filled tank to make it. It will be empty at lunch/dinner time to sync fueling and eating. I can do the same for charging. But for trips longer than 8 hours, I probably need 2 stops in the LR where I could make it with 1 on the ICE if I start with a full tank.
If I stumble upon a pile of free cash I am getting a C8 Z06 Corvette. I don’t care how fast Tesla is, nothing beats the feeling of a pure race car lol.
Nah. I would get a full equipped M3P, place an order on a roadster and rent the corvette for the track. I do like a LOT what they did with the latest model design wise. Looks badass IMO. I saw one around here not long ago. Ticket-red.
Candleflame
Active Member
Actually thats not even true. The lr with performance boost has faster acceleration at higher speeds which is kinda ironic given that thats where most real world driving happens.
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