Help me decide what to buy!!

[chriSharek]

I'm unsure why everyone is so high on the CPO . . . you can almost buy a new one with all the new bells and whistles with the price of the CPO, considering the $7,500 tax credit!

Plus, you're not getting nearly as long of a warranty (8 years, unlimited mileage for the new one)

Again, I guess for those that don't like the new, latest and greatest technology, or the new car smell, or knowing you are the ONLY one who has driven the car, then get a CPO. I just don't get it.

 

[Drucifer]

I'm unsure why everyone is so high on the CPO . . . you can almost buy a new one with all the new bells and whistles with the price of the CPO, considering the $7,500 tax credit!

Plus, you're not getting nearly as long of a warranty (8 years, unlimited mileage for the new one)

Again, I guess for those that don't like the new, latest and greatest technology, or the new car smell, or knowing you are the ONLY one who has driven the car, then get a CPO. I just don't get it.

I am transitioning from a 2013 Volt that is at lease termination later this summer. It has almost 30k miles on it and I got it new as one of the first MY2013 Volts.

I'll spell out my thoughts. I was ready to pull the trigger on a 70D with all options except wheels, sub-zero and executive seats @ approx $95k delivered. So $88k after tax credit.

I am getting a P85 CPO with 18k miles on it, with every option available at the time of manufacture for $68.2k ($20k less), which allows me to keep the monthly payment under the psychological barrier of $1000/mo, without an overly substantial down payment.

In addition to the 70D I would spec, I get:
More Battery
Dual Charger
Bigger Frunk
Carbon Fiber Spoiler
21" Wheels
P level performance

I lose:
Option for autopilot
Parking Sensors
Folding mirrors
Alcantara headliner
Zero Mile vehicle

In all honesty, I care less about the options I am losing vs. what I am gaining (autopilot and parking sensors are nice, but I would rather have the frunk space and original P level performance).

Since the car keeps evolving, I look forward to buying a CPO 2018 version in 2020 at this point, with the 105 battery and Autopilot ver 2.5 or whatever that one gets.

 

[jbcarioca]

...
Since the car keeps evolving, I look forward to buying a CPO 2018 version in 2020 at this point, with the 105 battery and Autopilot ver 2.5 or whatever that one gets.

I think that is sound reasoning. It would not be my choice, but it is not me making the deal. The CPO option is quite rissoles, given tech new car warranty that it features, so long as the hardware limitations, such as they are, do not bother you. I have just looked over a fair selection of CPO cars during the last week just to see what one can get. As a result I have suggested them for several of my Tesla-desiring, but budget-limited friends. I am also more favourable regarding CPO because of knowing a few tesla owners who have had early cars with quite high mileage, and no problems following the early glitches. One of them had a serious accident and a rebuild, after which the car still looks and acts new with no perceptible degradation. I have never personally known of such a situation with any ICE car, although there must be some examples.

Enjoy all that awesome performance. Enjoy all that frunk space too. That is something I do envy.

 

[Electricfan]

I have it up for sale. Pretty much, I have everything in order, and the only thing holding me back from buying either of these two is selling mine.
I deduced that the range loss of my car is Lithium Memory. I've done a lot of research on it, and because of the volatility of a static number in percentage in charge, over time, with different charging habits, it has, it does, and will move the charge in either direction. Just gotta find the sweet spot.
Bottom line is, at it's worst, the battery has "lost" 4% of charging range. And that's no issue at all. And it comes and goes. So, as I said, I just gotta find the sweet spot of charging rate, charging range, amperage, and driving habits to bring the numbers back up.
But since I did have the battery absent for about 3 months, I have to rebuild the memory of the cells. So, I'm still working on that. I'll keep you posted.

I am very interested to see how much range my new car will have 10 years from now. I'm also planning to keep it for a long time. The bath I took on selling my 2013 Model S - I just can't afford to do that every two years!! But with my luck in 2017 they'll have an S with a 250kwh battery that drives itself from door-to-door and doesn't even have a steering wheel - the interior will be like a living room and you just sit there watching movies or whatever until you get where you're going. Or maybe it will fly.

How's your charger doing? I've had three 240V outlets installed for my Volt and Model S, and now I just wire them myself and mount them where I want, using an extension cord running around the floor. If I posted pictures of that I can't imagine the flames!! When electric cars are more prevalent there are just going to be friendly neighbors who will help you with your wiring for free, because more and more people will know which wires go where and how to clip a breaker in a breaker panel. The rip-offs we're suffering now at the hands of greedy people will stop. We'll look back and marvel that we wasted so much money on such simple tasks. Another dream of mine is that we'll be able to buy "EVSE" cables - fancy name for a cable to charge your electric car - at Walmart for $25.00 That's how much they should cost now, but won't until electric cars are in every garage (that day is coming!) Please do keep me posted! Hopefully I'll be posting pictures soon my my new 85S! Can't wait!!

 

[REBroker]

So is rebuilt a car that was previously declared salvaged? Or something else? I'm quite the risk taker, but if that p85 has no warranty and support from Tesla, then I'd run from it. Or if it was involved in a bad crash.

 

[Levi]

I think that is sound reasoning. It would not be my choice, but it is not me making the deal. The CPO option is quite rissoles, given tech new car warranty that it features, so long as the hardware limitations, such as they are, do not bother you. I have just looked over a fair selection of CPO cars during the last week just to see what one can get. As a result I have suggested them for several of my Tesla-desiring, but budget-limited friends. I am also more favourable regarding CPO because of knowing a few tesla owners who have had early cars with quite high mileage, and no problems following the early glitches. One of them had a serious accident and a rebuild, after which the car still looks and acts new with no perceptible degradation. I have never personally known of such a situation with any ICE car, although there must be some examples.

Enjoy all that awesome performance. Enjoy all that frunk space too. That is something I do envy.

You're absolutely right.
Listen, this coming from experience in buying/owning/reselling/rebuilding cars.....my Tesla is my 14th car I've ever owned. That's a lot, especially for most people my age.

But here is the reasoning. I come from BMWs.
And in 2005, at the E46 chassis (considered by many car people and BMW enthusiast to be the best chassis) you could get a:
325i for 35k.
OR you could get a 335i for 47k.
OR you could get a fully loaded M3 for 60k.

The following year, the E90 chassis came out.
Now, that same 325i is with , say, 1000 miles, is worth about 25k. The 335i is worth about 40k. And the M3 is STILL worth about 56-58k. With the same mileage.

A couple of years later, they upgraded to the E92 chassis.
And now, with 20000 miles each original car:
325i worth 17k.
335i worth less than 27k.
M3 STILL worth about 46-50.

In 2012, the F30 was introduced to replace the E chassis 3 series

I bought a 2006 325i in 2011 for 13k.
The 2005, E46 325 i chassis would be worth about 8-10k.
The 335 would be worth about 15 k 2005
And the M3, as I checked 5 minutes ago, can go for as high as $30,000.

Moral of the story is. A super loaded car of last year, I assure you, experts assure you, and the market will assure you, will be worth more in 2, 5, or 10 years, than a brand new base model of this year. Regardless of any new technology it may have, or latest update, or latest anything. If it really is base model, the big brother, albeit older, will always trump it.


-Levi

 

[Electricfan]

I am transitioning from a 2013 Volt that is at lease termination later this summer. It has almost 30k miles on it and I got it new as one of the first MY2013 Volts.

I'll spell out my thoughts. I was ready to pull the trigger on a 70D with all options except wheels, sub-zero and executive seats @ approx $95k delivered. So $88k after tax credit.

I am getting a P85 CPO with 18k miles on it, with every option available at the time of manufacture for $68.2k ($20k less), which allows me to keep the monthly payment under the psychological barrier of $1000/mo, without an overly substantial down payment.

In addition to the 70D I would spec, I get:
More Battery
Dual Charger
Bigger Frunk
Carbon Fiber Spoiler
21" Wheels
P level performance

I lose:
Option for autopilot
Parking Sensors
Folding mirrors
Alcantara headliner
Zero Mile vehicle

In all honesty, I care less about the options I am losing vs. what I am gaining (autopilot and parking sensors are nice, but I would rather have the frunk space and original P level performance).

Since the car keeps evolving, I look forward to buying a CPO 2018 version in 2020 at this point, with the 105 battery and Autopilot ver 2.5 or whatever that one gets.

I hate to break it to you, but you're getting 2013 seats. I hated the seats in my 2013 85S. I've ridden in two 2015 Model Ss and the newer seats seemed more comfortable/softer. We'll see if I feel that way after driving a couple of months though - hard to say from two test rides. But I've read a lot of comments and others didn't like the 2013 seats either. I wish I could move the seats from my Volt to my Tesla - love the Volt seats.

 

[Drucifer]

I hate to break it to you, but you're getting 2013 seats. I hated the seats in my 2013 85S. I've ridden in two 2015 Model Ss and the newer seats seemed more comfortable/softer. We'll see if I feel that way after driving a couple of months though - hard to say from two test rides. But I've read a lot of comments and others didn't like the 2013 seats either. I wish I could move the seats from my Volt to my Tesla - love the Volt seats.

I know, I know. I have Tesla "performance leather" seats, but they are still 2013 seats. I have already made the mistake of sitting in NextGen seats. If I was bigger, the side bolsters would bother me but since I am 6'0" and 185 lbs, they just fit like a glove. Next time.

 

[tga]

Moral of the story is. A super loaded car of last year, I assure you, experts assure you, and the market will assure you, will be worth more in 2, 5, or 10 years, than a brand new base model of this year. Regardless of any new technology it may have, or latest update, or latest anything. If it really is base model, the big brother, albeit older, will always trump it.

Empirical evidence does not support this in the used Tesla market. The more expensive cars (P85's, P85+'s) have lost more value than the S60's/S85's. Yes, the "big brother" is still worth more, but you lost more holding it.

 

[Cyclone]

I know, I know. I have Tesla "performance leather" seats, but they are still 2013 seats. I have already made the mistake of sitting in NextGen seats. If I was bigger, the side bolsters would bother me but since I am 6'0" and 185 lbs, they just fit like a glove. Next time.

Note that my 2013 CPO has the standard non-performance seats, but has the seat spring TSB applied. It is quite comfortable and no complaints after an 8 hour road trip. And I'm slightly heavier-set than Drucifer is.

- - - Updated - - -

I know Salvage cars are out of warranty and typically cut off from the Supercharger network. Would rebuilt cars still have the balance of the original warranty? If not, I would rule out the rebuilt car because even TSB and unrelated problems won't be touched by Tesla, even if they let it continue to get software updates and use the Supercharger network. Spring a leak in the pano, sorry, out of luck. Your tail light assemble accumulate some bugs in it, sorry, out of luck. Full disclosure though: I never was a person who had much stock in salvage/rebuilt cars and have, on occasion, bought an extended warranty.

 

[Levi]

Empirical evidence does not support this in the used Tesla market. The more expensive cars (P85's, P85+'s) have lost more value than the S60's/S85's. Yes, the "big brother" is still worth more, but you lost more holding it.

And you know this for a fact?
So, you're telling me that I have no grounds to base my opinions....yet YOU have the grounds to base YOUR opinion??

Because I only said "A loaded car of last year will be worth more"
You made the BOLD claim to say that "P85s and +" have lost more value than the S60s/S85s.

 

[Drucifer]

I think the intent of the statement was that if you buy an already depreciated used P85 or P85+, that the first owner takes a substantial depreciation hit, but the 2nd owner, with depreciation for years 3-6 will take a smaller hit vs. a non-P model. Of course, there is no evidence for this as BMW "M" was used as a basis of comparison and there is no 6 year old model S.

The model may not hold up as the P version of the Model S has sold as a higher percentage of total units than the M does of BMW total units of a series. Also, the Tesla Model S P version has much less in the way of unique features and bodywork vs. BMW M.

 

[tga]

And you know this for a fact?
So, you're telling me that I have no grounds to base my opinions....yet YOU have the grounds to base YOUR opinion??

Because I only said "A loaded car of last year will be worth more"
You made the BOLD claim to say that "P85s and +" have lost more value than the S60s/S85s.

I know this from spending way too much time studying the used Tesla market for months prior to the CPO program coming online. For a long time, loaded cars, around 18 months old, with around 15k-20k miles were selling for roughly these prices:

• S60 - ~$60k
• S85 - ~$70k
• P85 - ~$75k
• P85+ - ? Not enough data

Maybe I misunderstood your point. If it's just that an P85 will be worth more than an S60 years down the road, well sure. But the P85's lost value faster and harder than the S60's. A P85 new cost a lot more than $5K more than an S85.

So yes, in the used market, a P85 costs more than an S60. But the P85 lost more value, in both absolute numbers and as percentage of its original cost. The buyer of a new S60/S85 to less of a hit.

 

[Drucifer]

I know this from spending way too much time studying the used Tesla market for months prior to the CPO program coming online. For a long time, loaded cars, around 18 months old, with around 15k-20k miles were selling for roughly these prices:

• S60 - ~$60k
• S85 - ~$70k
• P85 - ~$75k
• P85+ - ? Not enough data

Maybe I misunderstood your point. If it's just that an P85 will be worth more than an S60 years down the road, well sure. But the P85's lost value faster and harder than the S60's. A P85 new cost a lot more than $5K more than an S85.

So yes, in the used market, a P85 costs more than an S60. But the P85 lost more value, in both absolute numbers and as percentage of its original cost. The buyer of a new S60/S85 to less of a hit.

The question I had was what does the depreciation do for the second owner from purchase to the time it is sold to the third owner. My supposition is the 2nd owner might be better off buying the highly discounted P vs. the mildly discounted S85 or S60. At least that is what I am counting on.

 

[tga]

The question I had was what does the depreciation do for the second owner from purchase to the time it is sold to the third owner. My supposition is the 2nd owner might be better off buying the highly discounted P vs. the mildly discounted S85 or S60. At least that is what I am counting on.

At this point, I'd guess a used P85 will hold value more than an S85 or S60. P85 values (2013's, ~18k miles) seem to be stable in the low to mid 70's. I think part of the big initial hit in P85 values came from P85 owners upgrading to the P85D.

Since the CPO program started, it looks like S60's/S85's are still loosing value (we've see S60's in the low 50's, and S85's in the low 60's). Maybe we're seeing the next wave of S85->S85D trades/upgrades

 

[Levi]

At this point, I'd guess a used P85 will hold value more than an S85 or S60. P85 values (2013's, ~18k miles) seem to be stable in the low to mid 70's. I think part of the big initial hit in P85 values came from P85 owners upgrading to the P85D.

Since the CPO program started, it looks like S60's/S85's are still loosing value (we've see S60's in the low 50's, and S85's in the low 60's). Maybe we're seeing the next wave of S85->S85D trades/upgrades

Yeah, I Agree with the depreciate rate. But in the long run, as I've experienced before, the higher tier vehicles will retain the girth of their value, as opposed to a sure sharp decline from the base models.

Right now, I'm still going for the Red P85. Tech support has assured me there's nothing wrong with it. The onwers have told me they got a 200 pt inspection at the Tesla Service Center, and have records. Everything seems to check out.
So, I'm getting a great car, albeit with that minor detail of the title. A Car that I, otherwise, would have never thought to get because of the insane price tag. But if I can get a $110 car at 50% JUST because of the title issue, although the car works (hopefully) exactly as it's supposed to, then that in itself is a good investment.

 

[steph280]

It sounds like you made up your mind about the P85 already, so go for what you want.

I'd never buy a rebuild/salvage, unless if you don't plan to resell.

 

[Drucifer]

I agree. Never spend good money buying someone else's problem.

 

[Levi]

It sounds like you made up your mind about the P85 already, so go for what you want.

I'd never buy a rebuild/salvage, unless if you don't plan to resell.

Yeah, that's the plan. Keep it for a good while, at least until we see the Model 3, and see what it's all about.
Who knows, maybe it WON'T be worth it, and Model S owners will bask in our triumph of owning our cars.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree. Never spend good money buying someone else's problem.

Oh, believe me, I've been there. My first car was exactly that.

88 Dodge Daytona. And while I was assured, there was nothing wrong with the car, it slowly started to break down, little by little, until one, after having replaced the entire head, it just blew up in my face, in the middle of the 75 Silver Strand, at 11:30 pm, as I was about to go to work.

 

[exLeaf]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tesla-Model...tr=true&hash=item27ffcbd7a1&item=171795273633
So hard to sell rebuild, this one sold a week ago, and is for sale again. Same seller have two more rebuild right now on ebay.

I agree. Never spend good money buying someone else's problem.

I love this