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Honest question about battery degradation...

glide

Active Member
Jun 6, 2018
3,375
3,513
USA
Good luck getting Tesla to honor that warranty.

An extra 5-10 minutes at the SC? Try an extra hour. Per stop. Then factor that into a road trip requiring multiple stops.

Battery degradation is a real issue on older vehicles and Tesla makes it very clear they do not stand behind their product.

Go read some of the 600+ page thread on battery gate/charge gate if you really want an answer.
The fanboi is strong with @M3BlueGeorgia
 

Zcd1

Member
Sep 2, 2018
728
849
Walloon Lake, MI / LaQuinta, CA
...You can see the trend line is almost perfectly horizontal. People want that battery. Of course, my battery deg could fall off a cliff tomorrow.

Your post perfectly illustrates the type of attention to the minutiae of battery condition that I don’t understand.

How/why does it matter if your battery loses a percent or two of capacity? What would that change in the ways you’re able to use your car?
 

alexgr

Member
Aug 13, 2019
761
668
42
Your post perfectly illustrates the type of attention to the minutiae of battery condition that I don’t understand.

How/why does it matter if your battery loses a percent or two of capacity? What would that change in the ways you’re able to use your car?

I guess you then don't understand people's obsession with iPhones I, lucky me, have never ever had an Apple product, and I just couldn't understand why people pay $1000+ for overpriced piece of silicon and plastic with the interface that is totally non-intuitive to me (the key word - "to me").

In case of Tesla, it is actually more than in case of Apple. Few people will keep their Teslas for over 12-14 years, so they are genuinely interested to know if the car will survive and if it will sell well at the end.
 
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hcdavis3

HCD3
Mar 3, 2019
2,201
1,354
02571
Your post perfectly illustrates the type of attention to the minutiae of battery condition that I don’t understand.

How/why does it matter if your battery loses a percent or two of capacity? What would that change in the ways you’re able to use your car?
How about 7% in 4000 miles and counting.
 

zannman

Member
May 15, 2019
133
101
Ohio
How about 7% in 4000 miles and counting.

Just get used to the readings jumping around A LOT over time. Battery Health isn't a direct measurement and requires the software to calculate through a lot of guesses. Typically lower than expected readings are due to cell imbalance which will resolve over time and use.

If you had an immediate 25% range loss, then that could be a battery module problem that could prompt action from Tesla. Unfortunately 10% is within the limits of the calculation error.

For example, my TeslaFi degradation is about 4% right now. Fleet average at my mileage is around 6%. When my car had 10,000 miles, I had a spike down below my current indicated range. Completely normal.
 

GtiMart

Active Member
Nov 13, 2019
1,003
851
Quebec City, Canada
It is a well known fact that you lose a few percent very early on and then it tapers drastically. Those few percent are not lost equally at the same exact mileage. People get frustrated when theirs is worst than others. Don't worry, we'll all pay the battery degradation tax, it's physics and chemistry, it has no favorites :D
 

Zcd1

Member
Sep 2, 2018
728
849
Walloon Lake, MI / LaQuinta, CA
How about 7% in 4000 miles and counting.

I’ll bet that what TeslaFi is telling you isn’t accurate, for the reasons mentioned by other posters in this thread.

I certainly hope that’s the case.

As I stated in the OP, I see zero benefit in obsessing over these details, because worrying about it doesn’t help, and Tesla certainly isn’t going to “fix” a car based on what TeslaFi or other third party softwares say...
 
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Jul 19, 2020
32
34
Monterey
Even if a car loses 10% (20-30 miles) of its range over 5-7 years

A majority of people I see complaining (including myself) are losing ~10% range in 1-2 years. Since most people plan to keep their cars for the long haul, a steep drop like that so soon would naturally have some concerned about long term reliability. Especially since battery replacement isn't cheap and the battery warranty is not infinite.

Why so concerned? If you are happy with your car then that's great but if some people want to scrutinize every mile of lost range then that's on them. EV's are still relatively new to market in the grand scheme of things and many new owners are trying to figure out how things work in regards to what to expect with range...cold weather..ect. So if it bothers you so much to have people complaining about range then you better buckle up because considering how many cars Tesla is selling, these posts are going to keep coming.
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
9,654
10,900
Riverside Co. CA
How about 7% in 4000 miles and counting.

The point that @Zcd1 one is making is (not saying I agree or disagree with it btw) is exactly HOW is that "7% over 4000 miles materially effecting your use of the car?" Its most likely not, other than giving you ulsers.

Its not stopping you from driving anywhere, its not materially impacting your ability to use the car, its just a number on the screen that people obsess over AND dont realize that teslafi / stats do not report fully accurate info about, as mentioned repeatedly by people who really understand these batteries and what they see, with things like scan my tesla.

Thats the point he is making, but him (or anyone else) making that point is obviously not going to stop you (or anyone else) from obsessing about it. All its going to do is make people either defend their position, or say tesla is not "helping them because their battery is crap", even though they drive 30 miles a day and their battery may have started with 310 miles but is now 280 (thus doesnt impact them in the slightest other than the number on the screen).

As I said before, I understand why people obsess over the number on the screen, even if its somewhat irrational in my opinion because it doesnt impact them. There isnt anything to discuss here though, because nothing anyone posts is going to change peoples position on either side of this.
 

P85_DA

Supporting Member
Apr 25, 2015
4,175
2,885
CA
because nothing anyone posts is going to change peoples position on either side of this.
True statement ;)...to the OP my car “lost” 20 miles range at 30k miles it did not affect my usage ...what affects usage more than anything is the BMS calling my SuC speeds ...the net affect is on long drives with multiple supercharger stops I may incur an additional 30min wait time :eek:....other than that I stand by what I said earlier I just use the car as I see fit and charge to whatever I don’t obsess over a number on the screen :cool:
 

KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,631
3,301
Maine
Your post perfectly illustrates the type of attention to the minutiae of battery condition that I don’t understand.

How/why does it matter if your battery loses a percent or two of capacity? What would that change in the ways you’re able to use your car?
I don't think you read my post at all. I was pointing out why others may obsess about their estimated rated range, since some of us, show no degradation. They wonder why their Model 3 doesn't do likewise. If they ALL degraded at the same rate, then no one would complain; but since some seem to degrade less, then people get upset that they paid alot for a battery that seems worse on average than their peers.

Using a 3rd-party app that shows your historical estimated rated range doesn't require any "attention to the minutiae of battery condition". It's part and parcel of checking on how full your battery is, how full are your tires, is the washer fluid topped up. Checking on the overall condition of your car should be routine. You check on your treadwear on your tires don't you? Why wouldn't you check on the wear on your HV battery if you could? People check on the condition of their 12V, and they should given all the premature failures.

For many, range anxiety is a major factor when first purchasing a BEV. It takes time for that to go away as one gains experience. Losing estimated range, is part and parcel of range anxiety. Less range, more anxiety. It's only natural for new BEV owners to obsess over range, until they get a comfort level with their range and their usage patterns.

Personally, I've always kept my display on Percent. That's the way I saw my gas gauge, as a percentage. It's what I'm used to. I don't obsess over range, but I do like to maintain my new car to stay new as long as possible. That's normal. When it gets its first ding, I'll worry about it less, just like every car I've owned.
 

hcdavis3

HCD3
Mar 3, 2019
2,201
1,354
02571
I’ll bet that what TeslaFi is telling you isn’t accurate, for the reasons mentioned by other posters in this thread.

I certainly hope that’s the case.

As I stated in the OP, I see zero benefit in obsessing over these details, because worrying about it doesn’t help, and Tesla certainly isn’t going to “fix” a car based on what TeslaFi or other third party softwares say...
The point that @Zcd1 one is making is (not saying I agree or disagree with it btw) is exactly HOW is that "7% over 4000 miles materially effecting your use of the car?" Its most likely not, other than giving you ulsers.

Its not stopping you from driving anywhere, its not materially impacting your ability to use the car, its just a number on the screen that people obsess over AND dont realize that teslafi / stats do not report fully accurate info about, as mentioned repeatedly by people who really understand these batteries and what they see, with things like scan my tesla.

Thats the point he is making, but him (or anyone else) making that point is obviously not going to stop you (or anyone else) from obsessing about it. All its going to do is make people either defend their position, or say tesla is not "helping them because their battery is crap", even though they drive 30 miles a day and their battery may have started with 310 miles but is now 280 (thus doesnt impact them in the slightest other than the number on the screen).

As I said before, I understand why people obsess over the number on the screen, even if its somewhat irrational in my opinion because it doesnt impact them. There isnt anything to discuss here though, because nothing anyone posts is going to change peoples position on either side of this.
Thanks jj. I appreciate your thoughts.
 

GtiMart

Active Member
Nov 13, 2019
1,003
851
Quebec City, Canada
KenC, "no degradation" is not possible given the way batteries behave chemically. I think you are also mislead by inaccurate information, but it looks good for you instead of looking bad for others.

Having said that, I do agree that the chances are, whatever I say won't change anyone's opinion. I'm just trying to inform.
 
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